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Archive for the ‘Calling out the liberal left!’ Category

Or what the Weinstein spy connections tell us about online activism and infiltration of activists’ lives

The agencies that Weinstein used to monitor, harass, confuse, marginalize, gaslight and discredit the women he had abused weren’t set up to keep the abuse victims of powerful men, in line. That’s just how they were used by a few powerful men once these agencies were well established. These agencies were set up to target activists and silence journalists.

What has been revealed in the wake of Weinstein’s use of these agencies is the covert actions activists and journalists have been subjected to for some time: to create counterintelligence including the use of online avatars.   We do have direct evidence of online avatars in overt support for Israel. With the Weinstein revelations, we now know that avatars also post as supporters of their targets, while gaslighting and subverting them. There have been reports of online targeting of activists. Behind the scenes, these operatives infuse themselves into women’s lives, into movements, disrupting activist communities. Those who have been targeted experience suspicious car accidents, cancelled appointments, hacked computers, bad jacketing (where activists are accused of being enemy agents or operatives). The gaslighting where nothing is predictable and everything is chaos can be overwhelming and the impact on activists is devastating.

Cafe Intifada has been reporting on this privatized espionage for some time. It is well known for example that nonprofit groups like Discover the Network and Stand With Us keep dossiers on activists, providing “supporters” with material to be used when targeting the free speech of activists who work for and support Palestinian human rights. Some of this work becomes evident when there are specific campaigns to silence particular activists or groups of activists, as has been exposed on this blog.  

The Weinstein revelations don’t tell those of us targeted, anything new, but these revelations do bring to light these methodologies and offer some vindication to those of us whose accusations have been dismissed as paranoid ramblings. No, this is not a Hollywood movie about fictitious Bourne identities. This isn’t some Hollywood fantasy of Sandra Bullock trapped in the internet. These agencies do real damage to real lives. Weinstein hired these firms because of the work they have been doing all along. Let’s just say:  WE TOLD YOU SO! 

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Open Hillel is promoting the film “70 Years Across the Sea: American Jews and 21st Century Zionism”, about the divide in the Jewish community over models of zionism and the current State of Israel.
 
But the film thesis is very problematic, ignoring the deeper issues of power, class and imperialism, and centering the discussion on Jews and not Palestinians.
 
Gratefully the film (trailer) didn’t repeat the tired old argument that this is a generational divide, which further obscures the power basis of Israeli hegemony. The thesis of this film, though, at least according to the trailer, is very dangerous, repeats stereotypes of Jewish power, obscures the power of U.S. empire and its appropriation of Jewish suffering and the Jewish narrative.
 
It repeats the false assertion and stereotype of diaspora Jews as weak and passive, and Israelis as strong and active. The resistance to the Nazis, to the pogroms, to injustice in general is a disapora narrative that is obscured by the zionist narrative. We cannot fight for a free Palestine, and justice for Jews in the diaspora if we perpetuate these harmful stereotypes that locates Jewish strength in occupation , assimilation and as agents (or worse, as the controlling operatives ) of U.S. empire and locates Jewish weakness in ethnic identity and resistance/passivity in the diaspora.
 
The Israeli occupation isn’t a liability, it’s genocide, and it didn’t start in 67, it started in 48. Calling it a liability assumes that there is a just zionist solution, and centers the occupation of Palestine, around a zionist and imperialist narrative and seeks a compromise with a fair and just society that grants equal civil and human rights to all and not within a neoliberal or neoconservative debt dependency structure of the U.S.
 
The “power” of UhMurikan Jews is a narrative of upper middle class and wealthy Jews, and white supremacist ideology, and doesn’t apply to all Jews in the U.S.. That power to the extent that it exists, is predicated on support for Israel, and support for U.S. empire in general. It’s also a delusion, a fragile membership of court Jews and house Jews.
 
The real power of U.S. support for Israel comes from the Christian zionists, who number in the tens of millions, which explains why organizations like the ADL and the Simon Weisenthal Center, and Stand With Us can ignore the Jewish community and support a zionism to the right of most Jews, including most zionist Jews.
 

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Cafe Intifada has been covering the issue of anti-Jewish racism for some time, and the growing normalization of white supremacist ideology of Counterpunch Magazine, Paul Craig Roberts, Alex Jones, Gilad Atzmon, Ron Paul, Greta Berlin, Alison Weir, David Icke David Duke, If Americans Knew,  etc. It is our belief that the now visible normalization of extreme right wing, ideological white supremacy, had its initial inroads in the left in the form of these popular white supremacists.

There have been threats to Jewish organizations, desecrations of cemeteries and synagogues forever, but people are both more aware of these terrorist acts, and they are also increasing in frequency and intensity.

The most terrifying are reports of multiple bomb threats of Jewish community centers, which for the most part, are places for families to gather, leave children for day care, senior citizen activities, hold cultural and creative classes. JCCs are not a location of political action or religion, for the most part. These treats are a treat against Jewish children. Targeting children is the work of those who see the entire population as a threat. It is the work of those who advocate if not carry out genocide.

The Anne Frank Center For Mutual Respect in New York has done wonderful work on twitter and facebook making known these outrageous threats, and making important connections between racism in general and antisemitism specifically.

Karen Rago, on facebook has provided links to these events and her own commentary:

“I saw a friend today who’s not on Facebook. She had NO IDEA about all the bomb threats, the synagogue classroom being shot, the man being arrested with weapons for planning a massacre at a synagogue, or the Jewish cemeteries being desecrated.
“Which I think is pretty weird considering Jews control the media.”

“Justification I saw as to why they need to catch the person/people responsible for the Jewish bomb threats: “Not just Jewish people go to Jewish Community Centers.”
I’m so fucking done.”

“Two more bomb threats this morning at a Jewish senior center and a Jewish Community Center. They’ve escalated to daily. Still not making mainstream news. CNN has a front page story about Emma Watson blushing, though.”

“If you really want to bring terror on a group, go after their kids.#JewishBombThreats

And this more personal threat to her own safety and well being:

“My inbox is going to be the end of me.

This Christian guy asks me for an “accurate number of Jews killed in concentration camps.” I think he wants an education.

No, he wants to know because he’s “been itching for a new tat” and is considering making that 6,000,000 into a concentration camp-looking number tattoo for his forearm.”

Some days, y’all, I can’t even stand to look and see what ridiculous or hateful thing is going to show up in my inbox.”

And the Huffington Post is tracking the threats to JCCs, Jewish Cemeteries and synagogues, here: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/jewish-community-centers-bomb-threats-map_us_58b091efe4b060480e07cdfc

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From my other blog, because once my DISability was established as an acceptable target and my (and yes, and yet she persisted) persistence held against me, the abuse didn’t stop. Once a target, you’ll be blamed for the abuse: the classic “She asked for it.”

Resurrecting Assassinated Characters
https://inbedwithfridakahlo.wordpress.com/2017/03/04/resurrecting-assassinated-characters/

And this important article by a young Palestinian activist, because the attacks on me are not personal. It’s part of an over all pattern, because if they can target you personally, they don’t have to actually address the issues you’re raising.

Character Assassination as a Tool to Silence a Palestinian Woman
https://medium.com/@MalakaMohammed/character-assassination-as-a-tool-to-silence-a-palestinian-woman-8a8da38740b6#.2cavbkh3x

And a reminder that women are often the targets of cyber abuse:

Dangerous Neighborhoods: Cyber abuse, harassment and threats: Women online.
https://inbedwithfridakahlo.wordpress.com/2016/10/11/dangerous-neighborhoods-cyber-abuse-harassment-and-threats-women-online/

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YOUR PUT DOWNS OF SAFETY PINS ARE NOT ENOUGH!
& YOUR PETTY CALL OUT ACTIVISM
IS AN EMBARRASSMENT!

There have been a few articles and several social media posts mocking the proposal that people wear safety pins to proclaim, in this new UhMurikan landscape, that “I am a safe space.” It’s a way for those of us in an unfamiliar place or under attack to identify an ally who will defend us or accompany us if we encounter violence, hate speech, threats or intimidation because of our real or assumed membership in a targeted group. One article appeared, written by a white presenting cis het presenting man, in the Huffington Post, that bastion of social responsibility and grassroots mobilization. (Snark!)

 Of course the safety pins are NOT ENOUGH.They’re a symbol, a statement, a promise and a commitment.

Are these publish worthy leftists also for the abolishment of: buttons and t-shirts (which must be manufactured, marketed and sold), banners, signs. How are these any different? Are we against any symbolism? What about ribbons? arm bands?

This petty self promotion  and put down of other activist efforts is tiresome. After all not EVERYONE gets Huffington Post press access.

The safety pin solidarity started in England after the passage of Brexit with the targeting of immigrants.  In England there may have been an issue with the pins, that it was a white thing: an insufficient badge of respectability, guilt, remorse, penance. But in the U.S., Occupied Amerikkka the targets are MOST OF US. And there are still people totally complicit from all demographics, so the symbol is important, easy, accessible, inexpensive, UNFUCKINGMARKETABLE, so we can let people know we are ready to take action; (and then we need to come through; that we are here for each other). After all with the increased rhetoric and the emboldened extreme right, white supremacist (rebranded, normalized, alt-right),  only white Christian cis het, ENabled, body normative men aren’t targeted. The vast majority, the rest of us are!

For way too long activism has moved from the grassroots, to self promotion, individualism,  survival of the fittest, scarcity resources and competition. Allies who aren’t movement stars (there’s a clear double standard here!)  are told they should just not show up, not take up space, sit down, shut up, listen, read more, go shopping.  There has been very little engagement in what real allyship might be, what solidarity looks like, how we check each other and check ourselves, from a position of responsibility, accountability and transparency, and not from a place of obedience, acquiescence and silence.  Hopefully the broad targeting of so many of us is a wake up call, that we need all our bodies on the line, and that we can’t do this in separate groups (which fuels the alt right’s rebranding, as it appropriates that language with claims that it is simply a civil rights movement for white people and that we all have our place in our separate nations.)

Maybe the movement stars who are so used to making it all about themselves:  the self promoters, the individualist who have for too long used “activism” as their own personal starting line in that great competition for speaking engagements, publicity and  non-profit managerial positions can show some solidarity instead of crapping on this very basic grassroots organizing effort. Maybe we can move the dialogue from whose voices matter to how we can assure our movement is as large and inclusive as possible (day care, DISability access, language translation, financial accessibility). Maybe we can start to have the difficult discussions around transparency and accountability around unlearning racism, sexism, ableism,  ageism, classism and all the other ways marginalization keeps us down and apart.

So let this be the start and not the end. Let the lists of other ways of showing solidarity, of putting our bodies, minds, reputations on the line for each other begin, but let us start with “AND” and not “BUT”.

Sure the safety pins are not enough, and your grandstanding is getting real tired, too.

 

 

 

 

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By Emma Rosenthal

An important discussion has inadvertently come to a head within the Palestine solidarity movement that focuses on the nature of solidarity, agendas within movements, white savior syndrome, the nonprofit industrial complex and alliance building and accountability. While the differences exposed by this discussion have been an issue within the movement for sometime, the discussion is long overdue. 

This all came to a  head when Alison Weir, founder of If Americans Knew, (IAK), and president of the Council for the National Interest, (CNI), responded publicly to the internal decisions, communicated to Weir in personal letters,  of two other Palestine Solidarity organizations; Jewis Voices for Peace (JVP)   and The US Campaign to End the Israeli Occupation (USCEIO)  that it was inconsistent with their anti-racist human rights agenda to work with Weir or her organizations. Weir and her supporters were outraged over the decision by these two groups to dis-associate from her.

What is curious is the response of Weir and her supporters here  and here  including assertions that this was:  the act of zionist infiltrators,  McCarthyism,and that Weir was being silenced, censored and attacked (“by zionists”).  Most notable in the responses to these internal documents is that in calling out what both organizations believe to be in contradiction to their anti-racist principles, they were being “divisive” and “playing into the hands of the zionists.”

No one is silencing Weir. Not working with Weir isn’t silencing her. She is not entitled to every panel, conference and coalition. The definition of zionism* isn’t “disagreeing with Alison”.

With public recognition comes public scrutiny.  At the very least, books get reviewed, and to disagree with a particular author or to choose not to create a forum with or for that author isn’t McCarthyism or a personal attack or censorship.  Despite the protestations of her followers, no one is infringing on Weir’s employment, ability to travel outside the U.S., arresting her, blacklisting her,  keeping her from other forums or from creating forums of her own. She is not at risk for imprisonment, deportation or execution.  (THAT would be McCarthyism, a movement that singled out Jews and Blacks disproportionately.) In pointing that out, I would hope we could focus on fair and honest argumentation and avoid insults, ad hominem and strawmen. We should avoid terms that define a person in ways that they would not define themselves  and instead identify ideas and actions that are racist, white supremacist and zionist and explore their impact and significance.   In that context, a person who is truly anti-racist would want to check themselves out of concern that unintentionally they may have done harm. “I’m not racist but…” is not the response of accountability.  Furthermore “Alison doesn’t have a racist bone in her body” obfuscates the issue and avoids actual accountability.

It was Weir that made this discussion public,  but it is much bigger than her, or her organizations with implications for social justice activism and advocacy in general.  I hope in this article to inform that discussion in a deeper way than has been offered up until now, and I expect in its wake will come even more discussion and understanding, as well as unfortunate insults, ad hominems, strawmen and abuse. I would hope those who believe in their positions would chose to articulate  them in ways that add to our greater understanding and leave insults and derailing obfuscations to those whose positions have little substantiation beyond their own opportunism and bigotry.

This article will not focus on Weir in particular, but rather on the key issues, ideologies and contradictions  that fuel the differences of the current dialogue. Notably this discussion involves core assumptions and entitlements. Without the willingness to explore the root of these premises no one is qualified to then assert that racism isn’t an underlying factor, regardless of all good intentions and “better judgement.”

Divisiveness: or don’t talk about the elephant.

The assertion that those who raise the issue of racism (sexism, ableism etc) are divisive is a common defense against and a way of derailing any discussion of racism and oppression within social justice activism. But discussing already existing divisions doesn’t create them. Denial doesn’t make differences go away. A healthy movement should be able to air differences and account for them, determine which differences are deal breakers for forging alliances and which are healthy in that they allow for a diversity of opinions, experiences and voice.

Discussing Differences: Two Major Tendencies

There are two basic tendencies within what is broadly known as Palestine solidarity with implications in regard to U.S. global policy and social activism as well. One tendency, and the one that I identify with, comes from a tradition of anti-racist, anti-imperialist and anti-colonialist work, which often includes a critique of capitalism at its root. In no context does it see the U.S. as a neutral party, an agent of benevolence or the Great White Hope.  It views Western support for Israel as an extension of and consistent with western imperialism, colonization and conquest.  This tendency doesn’t deny the power of the zionist lobby (The Lobby), but sees that power not as an exception but rather as functioning well within the lobby system itself and the entire infrastructure of U.S. empire and capitalism.  Many of the members of this tendency, myself included,  have been attacked, surveilled and blacklisted by the The Lobby and the zionist establishment.  The problem isn’t with The Lobby in particular, but rather with the political structures that allows for powerful corporate lobbies to exist at all and with how The Lobby exists to support those systems.  This perspective asserts that The Lobby doesn’t just consist of  Israel, its Jewish U.S. supporters  or the self proclaimed “Jewish” organizations (the ADL, Stand with Us, AIPAC). It  also includes the vast number of Christian zionists and the Christian fundamentalist churches, the oil industry, the construction industry, the security industry and by no short measure, the arms industry, all of which profit quite favorably from escalating Israeli militarism.  (In the U.S, while there are less than 6 million Jews, zionist and anti-zionist, there are over 40 million Christian zionists.) Israeli brutality and militarism is consistent and in dialogue with, and developing alongside the growing militarization of police forces within U.S. cities, the prison industrial complex, and urban warfare as well as the militarization of the border with Mexico and U.S. empire.

Within this tendency though, and Weir points this out to JVP,  is the tolerance by some of “soft zionism”.  JVP should address internally as well as publicly its refusal to denounce zionism if it’s going to be consistent with its assertion that it does not work with racists. The attempt by “soft zionists” to present zionism as somehow consistent within a larger human rights narrative is impossible.  In my opinion, Weir is quite correct in this assertion.

The other tendency’s ideology is based in white supremacist assertions and ideology. This tendency sees the problem as an ethnic/foreign one, with one outside agent (Israel) with its internal agents (usually diaspora Jews, with little or no discussion of the vast number of Christian zionists) having “undue influence” via The Lobby, on the U.S. government. This tendency breaks down into two groups:  The first group espouses  outright ideological white supremacy: KKK, Nazis, David Duke, Stormfront, Ron Paul, Paul Craig Roberts, David Icke, Gilad Atzmon, among others, who identify particular Jewish qualities as the core issue and envision themselves engaged in an existential struggle against “World Jewish Domination” and the rising numbers of people of color. Generally they openly fear the growing number of people who are not white, both within occupied Amerika and the world at large, and are overt in their concern for the “eventual extinction” of white people.  They don’t actually care about Palestinians. They just hate Jews more and see Palestine as the front line of a global struggle against white annihilation. They use terms like Jewish power, Jewishness, ZOG (Zionist Occupied Government) and  the Hollowcause;  they doubt that there ever was a Holocaust but assert that if there were it was because the Jews brought it upon (them) (our) selves.

Then there are the neo-liberal/neo-colonialists, whose premise is also white supremacist,  in that they support ruling class interests that favor and promote white power and privilege.  They include Mearsheimer and Walt, Jimmy Carter, Kathleen and Bill Christison, Paul Findley, Anne Wright and Ray McGovern. Their concern is with particular market interests and U.S. foreign policy strategy.  They frame their concern in terms that are white supremacist because they assume U.S. largess and exceptionalism, like “American interests”,  “American core values, “American founding principles”,  “America’s good name and good will”  and the need to “appeal to middle (aka white) America”.  While Weir and her supporters painted all those who call out this inherent racism, as zionists, interestingly, zionism is not so much of a problem for most of this group, but rather the extent of Israeli (perceived) power and disobedience as a client state.  Many of the neo-liberals (including Paul Findley–who, as a U.S. congressman, never opposed South African apartheid, U.S. intervention in South and Central America or the Vietnam War) qualify their critique of Israel with support for a two state solution that would include a specifically Jewish state, run by and with particular advantage to Israeli Jews.  (In case you missed that, it’s essentially zionist, unless by zionist, one mean “Jews”.)  While The Lobby advocates a war economy, the neo-liberal objective is to create markets and promote industry and debt dependency,  which is difficult under extreme military conflict. We could refer to this group and their two state solution as Maquiladora (sweatshop) labor and Halal McDonalds. However to expand markets the neo-libs need the absence of war. They need a passive population to serve the interests of multinational corporations.

The adherents to ideological white supremacy and neoliberalism focus on what they see as the undue influence of Israel on U.S. policy and in many cases present the U.S. as the victim, even the ultimate victim of zionist brutality and aggression.  They are not, for example, offended or concerned that a U.S. spy ship  (the U.S.S. Liberty) was in the Mediterranean spying on Israel and Egypt,  because they recognize that as a significant right of “American” exceptionalism.  They don’t concern themselves with the fact that this was a military target and as such, not innocent, in the way civilians are innocent. They are offended that the ally they gave “so much money to” (bought and paid for) would bomb “our” spy ship.  They are not offended by settler colonialism, racism, apartheid, manifest destiny. The concern of this tendency isn’t with imperialist power, capitalism, hegemony or settler colonialism per se, but rather with what they see as the threat: Israel and by extension,  the Jews. Those who harbor ideological white supremacy locate Jews and Jewishness, as the problem. The neo-liberals focus on Israel: a foreign power, that exercises these systems of oppression outside of what they identify as (their) U.S. interests.

This is to say these two tendencies represent very different ideologies and motivations. One is a movement against racism, imperialism, capitalism and empire. The other sees Israel as an obstacle to imperialism, capital and empire, and rejects any suggestion that this agenda might be fundamentally problematic, supremacist and unjust. This is the root of the objection to Weir, IAK and CNI.  It isn’t personal, it isn’t McCarthyism (which requires the power of the state!). It’s simply a different and opposing politic.

White supremacist opportunism has colonized this movement, columbused* this movement, taken it on as its own, framing it in Amerikanisms, as if the Palestinians were superfluous to their own struggle. Senior Editor Gordon Duff of “Veterans Today”’ referred to Palestinian activists  as “Supposed Palestinian Activists.   Greta Berlin referred to Ali Abunimah, as “Ali Ayatolah,”  Atzmon referred to Palestinian activists  en masse as demonstrating “intellectual intolerance” and to Ali Abunimah as a Sabbath Goy answerable to his Jewish masters.  And many  Gilad Atzmon and Greta Berlin supporters disregarded a widely diverse call from Palestinian activists and scholars, that racism, including antisemitism* has no place in the Palestinian movement here and  here; as if Palestinians had no right to direct the message and the terms of their own struggle.

If Americans Knew, according to its own web page, states:  “she (Weir) founded an organization to be directed by Americans without personal or family ties to the region who would research and actively disseminate accurate information to the American public.”  This false and entitled “objectivity” disregards the politics of experience and pretends that only those not directly impacted negatively can be trusted to come to rational or objective conclusions and make legitimate assertions, or at the very least, to run and direct an organization intended to inform “Americans”. This is so essentially supremacist and in this regard, IAK provides the most ideological framework for stripping the Palestinian struggle of Palestinians and for disregarding the insights of Jewish anti-zionists when it comes to  navigating the distinction between real anti-Jewish racism and  false accusations of antisemitism against any and all critiques of Israel and zionism. One can scroll the pull down menu at the top of the IAK web page and barely find any mention of Palestinians at all. It’s truly striking and offensive – Palestinian struggle without Palestinians, where Palestinians, little more than statistics, with their “personal or family ties” aren’t to be trusted to direct the movement or present “objective” viewpoints. This is the job for the fair-haired Amerikan saviors.  who “read dozens of books on the topic.” 

In one recent statement Weir defends this segregated approach to organizing, citing the value of ethnic-specific organizations, though she doesn’t think anti-zionist Jews or Palestinians know what antisemitism is as she has yet to call out anything within the movement as antisemitic including Atzmon and a host of Holocaust deniers with whom she is closely affiliated and in Atzmon’s case, has publicly defended (against the better judgement of Palestinian activists). She claims that the ethnic makeup of her organization is important to reach a particular constituency. NO DOUBT!  and that’s pretty much the point. Unless one is reaching out to white Amerika to confront their racist entitlement,  from an anti-imperialist anti-racist perspective, one is just reinforcing their entrenched bigotry to the benefit of the ruling class,  especially if one uses language that reinforces that hegemony.

Opportunistic white supremacy advances an agenda in which the Palestinians are superfluous to the struggle and the movement. It pretends that since zionist organizations assert that all and any critiques of Israel and zionism are antisemitic, then nothing is. It uses the Palestinian struggle and other popular concerns to normalize and advance a U.S. imperialist agenda that is racist to its core, and to normalize it, even on the left, significantly on the left.  It is not only anti Jewish,  it is anti-black, anti-immigrant, anti-Native American, anti-Asian, anti-the global south, anti-Arab, anti- everyone the U.S. foreign and domestic policy has hurt, attacked, stolen from and killed, over the last hundreds of years.  Hiding behind scapegoats and particularly Jewish stereotypes to perpetuate an exceptionalism it only opposes when those who embody it are Jewish or “foreign”. The problem with Israel in this context obviously isn’t settler colonialism, or racism, or imperialism, or genocide. It’s the understanding that it is carried out by and for Jews.

But it isn’t. It’s being carried out by U.S. empire– a reality which is easily eclipsed by focusing on  Israel and the Jews, as if in the fight for human rights, U.S. interests were in any way noble. As if the U.S. had a good name to destroy, had core values that were virtuous, as if the U.S. ruling class had suddenly lost the ability or the will to advocate for itself. The appeal to middle (aka white) Amerika betrays and abandons every other movement for liberation and justice.  And this is a key difference: One tendency joins the Palestinian struggle to global struggles for human rights and the other tendency, to white Amerikan entitlement and empire. This is not a minor difference and in recognizing these fundamental contradictions one is not divisive. The existing division is wide, deep and longstanding.

That members of this second tendency may be Jewish or Black or from a group targeted by white supremacy, doesn’t preclude them from espousing and advocating white supremacy. White supremacy is an ideology, and as such can be advanced by anyone. Jewish and Black white supremacists provided a greater illusion of objectivity to the racist assertions.

To be clear, I am not saying we must work on every issue and for every cause. I am not calling out specialization and specification. Yet surely in deciding to devote our attention to one particular cause, we must not sell out others or sell short the larger issues of social justice and we certainly should not colonize causes for what is basically an imperialist objective.

Those within the second tendency have colonized this movement for their own white supremacist agenda, with no concern for the consequences of their analysis and refusing to consider the racist implications of their assertions. White Amerikans will not bear the brunt of any association of Palestinian liberation with anti-Jewish stereotypes and ideology. Victims of U.S. empire will, targets of white supremacy will, Palestinians and Jews will.  Palestinians most of all.

Zionism is racism not only because of the relationship it establishes regarding Jews and Palestinians, it is racist because it is a settler colonialist enterprise of U.S. and western empire.

Between ideological white supremacy and the neo-libs there is incredible overlap in both ideology and endorsement as well as in underlying core assumptions.  That members of these two groups not only express their entitlement to the support of the anti-imperialist tendency, but that they rely on and align with each other is not insignificant.

And there are a few leftist cheerleaders, or those who would have us think they are leftists, for example, Counterpunch magazine,  James Petras,  Cynthia McKinney and Cindy Sheehan who either advocate a Lobby exclusivist perspective or promote those who do to the exclusion of other points of view. These leftists also tend to promulgate conspiracy theories, many of which are rooted in traditional antisemitism and distract activists from supporting human rights and opposing U.S. empire. The promotion of unsubstantiated conspiracies as fact, makes addressing documentable grievances more difficult, as they get caught in the cacophony of the unbelievable. Conspiracism as a ruling class tool,  abandons documentation and material dialectics and replaces them with unsubstantiated accusations,  magic secret societies and outright lies. When Sheehan granted Mckinney and Atzmon quarter on her soapbox she not only refused to allow any other voice to counter Atzmon and the racism that Palestinians have rejected, she blocked and unfriended those of us who attempted a dialogue and critique in the form of comments.

European Christian Origins of Zionist Ideology

In response to two organizations declining to work with Weir, several of her supporters signed a petition defending her.   https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1oyHWpfZtMvDez5XThztcbRMbgzQqMnCibkVk4Rjh3Hw/viewform  Many of the leading names on the petition were predictable, and include many Holocaust deniers, former U.S. governmental officials and CIA and miltary operatives. If Weir doesn’t appreciate their support she needs to disassociate from them (and in some cases, endorsing them).  Endorsement is more than “guilt by association” it is complicity by affiliation and alliance.

I was especially surprised to see Lawrence Davidson’s name among the signatories. Davidson has done deep and considerable work documenting the European Christian fundamentalist origins of zionist ideology.  and   He documents that European Christians envisioned a Jewish state in historic Palestine centuries before Hertzl’s first pen or the founding Zionist Congress and well before the Irgun or Stern Gang set off their first bombs.  Davidson demonstrates how the European Christian interpretation of the Biblical texts has been used to justify western colonization and imperialism: manifest destiny, conquering the wilderness, Pilgrims, the promised land, a city on the hill.

It wasn’t Jews who named Zion National Park, who named Amerikan cities Hebron and Bethlehem.  zionism is essentially a Christian ideology, not a Jewish one. t is settler colonialism, arising as political zionism in the context of 19th century nationalism and imperialism, then promoted decades later to a desperate people after a genocide of catastrophic proportions. Zionism is simply one element of Amerikan empire. Israel’s conquest and domination of Palestine is one more notch on the bedpost of U.S. enterprise.

Follow the money. Just follow the money. I know, I know, the whole rich Jew thing makes that sound silly, but put that stereotype aside and FOLLOW. THE. MONEY. While it is my considered belief that there is no form of political zionism that is not racist, the extreme example we have today is the zionism of empire (Western and Amerikan), bought and paid for. To assert anything else, is only believable because of stereotypes of the powerful Jew, Jewish dominance and Jewish money. To keep asserting these is to give cover to empire, which in turn gives cover to settler colonialism, capitalism, apartheid and racism on a global scale.

A Call for Accountability

Could the neo-liberals at least dis-associate from Ideological white supremacy and admit that there may be SOME sectors of the Amerikan ruling class that benefit from this arrangement and that at the very least campaign finance and the lobby system are systemically, and not specifically flawed?  Could they argue their position vis a vis U.S. foreign and economic policy within the context of U.S. government? Fundamentally that’s rhetorical and unlikely, because their entire premise is one of exceptionalism, empire and obfuscation.

When Lobby exclusivists claim there are no U.S. interests they are hoping we don’t notice the blood money of criminal “justice” system, security, construction, oil and arms; (where 75% of the ‘aid’ money donated by empire to Israel must be spent on US defense product and the other 25% goes to Israeli companies which are floated on the NASDAQ).

“U.S. interests” is a corrupt and outrageous basis for human rights advocacy.  If we are concerned for Palestinian human rights, it must be unconditional and not dependent on entitlements, not zionist entitlements, and not Amerikan entitlements. IAK and CNI should be honest that within the ruling class they represent a sector that may not benefit from (current levels of)  U.S. support for Israel. But to deny any interest is just columbusing* the whole discussion; “We is smart, we is kind, we is important” and thus can retell and untell any story  to make “us” look righteous. But it’s not righteousness. A society that is founded on empire and conquest is hardly the moral authority nor is its support for a smaller version of itself so surprising. U.S. support for Israel is totally consistent with U.S. policy in general: to support those regimes that support U.S. corporate interests.  And this is the basis for those who make this challenge: IAK’s premise is racist on face, not just because of anti-Jewish rhetoric or stereotyping, though the whole assertion of its premise is believable because of anti-jewish stereotypes of Jewish power, money and control; it is racist because it ignores and denies the fundamental and racist similarities between these two settler colonialist societies, and abhors the smaller while vindicating the larger.  It asserts in its very name that IF AMERIKANS KNEW they would do the right thing. But Amerikans do know. They know about slavery, Jim Crow,  police brutality, racism  reservations, immigration laws, and the growing prison system. They know about cuts to welfare, education and social services. They know about drone warfare and “honoring the troops”.  A huge sign is visible from the 5 freeway in San Diego County at the Pendleton Marine Base that proudly states “No Beach Out of Reach.” Does that not offend most Amerikans driving by, or does it fill them with pride? Who could appreciate such an arrogant and murderous imperialist attitude toward all the beaches in the whole world?  Do Amerikans not know that?  At the very least, the powerful funders and founders of IAK and CNI know. The Christisons and Ray McGovern, CIA operatives for many years, have known.  So on what basis do we believe that IF AMERIKANS KNEW about U.S. support for Israel, that (middle) Amerikans would do the right thing, would act any differently than they have on any other issue of Amerikan racist entitlement? Perhaps in pointing fingers and blaming a fifth column of (Jewish) outsiders, they assuage their guilt and reinforce their white savior syndrome. http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2012/03/the-white-savior-industrial-complex/254843/  When these organizations lead with “U.S. interests” how much confidence can we have in what “the right thing” might actually be? And if (middle) Amerikans really don’t know, how opportunistic is it to obscure U.S. historic and ongoing hegemony while calling on (middle) Amerikans to take on Israeli iniquity?

If settler colonialism is wrong, it is wrong. If stealing the best land, genocide, displacement, brutality, exploitation and militarism is wrong, if apartheid is wrong and Bantustans (modeled after Native American reservations) and extra-judicial executions, and false imprisonment, and lack of due process is wrong, if racism is wrong, if apartheid and border walls are wrong,  then there is no anti-racist basis for holding up the U.S. as a beacon, an example of magnanimity, as a paragon of justice. A human rights agenda that begins with Amerikan interests and harkens to some mythological and historically dishonest Amerikan goodness is a racist agenda on a racist premise, in its entirety, from the initial conquest, to ongoing policies toward indigenous Native Americans, to the racist criminalization system, wherein more people are currently incarcerated (in what is considered by many to be the new slavery—the privatized prison system) than were ever enslaved under Amerikan chattel slavery.  The focus on “the Jews” or on Israel, or The Lobby,  separate from or in contradiction to its benefactor, serves to obscure and exonerate capitalism and imperial predation. The racist impact and significance is much deeper and broader than antisemitism.

If their appeal to “middle America” is strategic, then they are lying to the “American people”, and appealing to their racist and jingoistic assumptions. If  the intention is truly to assert Amerikan exceptionalism, the basis is racist: It might be colonialist, it might be neocolonialist. Regardless of the motive, as long as the basis is western interests over regional self-determination  then  they are fighting racism with racism, and the result will always be racist.

If Weir and her supporters aren’t racist, then they as must we all, need to challenge entitlement, comfort, and the belief in their de facto goodness and rightness:  as white people, as Amerikans. If they expect Israel to be held accountable for systemic racism, then so too must Amerika.  For those who won’t, your double standards are showing, and yes, the words for that are entitlement, racism and supremacy.
______________________________

*Lexicon:

*Amerikan: I use this spelling to distinguishes between the U.S. and the American continent which consist of several nations and peoples. The U.S. is a settler colonialist entity, founded on a religious based doctrine of conquest and manifest destiny, contingent on massive and ongoing genocide, slavery and exploitation.

*Columbusing:  Staking claim to land and territory and then changing the narrative so that you’re a hero.

*Antisemitism: Racism against Jews, including Jewish magic, power, undue influence and wealth, Jews as outsiders, pariars. Antisemitism is an important (and ideologically central) aspect to ideological white supremacy and serves to distract the population at large from the problems of capitalism (wealth, undue influence, power) and blames those problems on the Jews.   Joseph Massad explains in detail. 

*Zionism: While the Second tendency (as described in this article) often define zionism along ethnic terms, or as anyone who calls out antisemitism, it actually refers to the belief in a specifically Jewish state, regardless of the ethnicity of the person who provides that support.

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Why We Cared about the Plantation and Needed an Apology:

A Letter to Ani DiFranco

By Indigo Violet

We bought your records, attended your shows, struggled with your white feminist and queer fans looking askance at us at your concerts. We thought you were an ally. And, now this.

What hurts for us feminists of color is that we went out on a limb to support you, and that in this historical moment when we say “Ani, please don’t have a retreat on an Old South plantation that glorifies its past. We can’t be there. We can’t do anything righteous there. We can only be hurt there,” you respond by lecturing us for being angry and bitter and by refusing to stand in solidarity with our pain. That YOU, the righteous babe, are re-enacting some of the most terrible patterns in white feminism hurts. It hurts because we’ve been organizing, writing, theorizing for years and years, trying to exorcise racism and white supremacy from our feminist movements, wanting white women to join us in that intersectional fight that would liberate us all. It hurts because we deal with racist assaults and racist blindness from the wider society ALL THE TIME, along with sexism, heterosexism, classism, queerphobia, transphobia, ablelism . . . We are living the legacy of the horror of this country. The horror is in the national consciousness that denies the facts of racism. The horror is in the law, economy, the education system, the prison industrial complex, in health care, our neighborhoods, on our streets, in our homes, our relationships, our psyches, and for those of us who are committed to struggle, it is in our politics and art. We’re trying to fix shit.

Imagine you’re a (black) girl just trying to finally come clean, knowing full well they’d prefer you were dirty (gracious— not bitter, not hurt, not angry) and smiling. . .

We need you to fix shit with us.

A friend, Premadasi Amada, wrote this on your Facebook fan page. This friend speaks my mind:

Ani DiFranco, with your insulting excuse for an apology you are now making your bed with all the white folks who are yelling at Black people and women of color: ‘reverse racism’, ‘stop whining’, ‘get over it’, ‘stop being angry’, etc.  Ani, you’re responsible for responding to and reigning in the disgusting expressions of white privilege and hate being spewed by your white fans. The time is now. Also, it’s unfathomable that anything about this has to be explained. You have enough Black women and women of color generally telling you what was wrong with it and how you what you did hurt. Which part of all that leads you to not say you are sorry? You need to listen and apologize rather than complaining and lecturing. This isn’t about you and your feelings Ani.

We need you to fix shit and say something different than what you said. If progressive white folks can’t fix shit, if feminist artists and activists can’t address shit for real, come clean for real about the intricate, longstanding and ongoing pain of race, racism, and white supremacy then there is no hope whatsoever for this America.

© Indigo Violet, December 31, 2013

Links to other articles on this issue:

“In a banner year for non-apology apologies, singer-songwriter Ani DiFranco non-apologized this weekend for renting out an old Louisiana slave plantation to host a songwriting workshop. The event, now canceled, was billed as a “Righteous Retreat” and charged attendees $1,000 to sleep in a tent for four nights and learn about “developing one’s singular creativity” while DiFranco and her friends led jam sessions. The “captivating setting” was to be Nottoway Plantation and Resort in White Castle, Louisiana, a 64-room, 53,000-square-foot antebellum mansion and sugar plantation”

http://www.motherjones.com/…/heres-why-everyone-mad-ani…

www.motherjones.com

The social-justice songstress has canceled the event—but the mess is of her own making._______________________________

“The decision had spurred angry posts across the web. Ninjacate wrote on Groupthink: “It really blows my mind that anyone in Ani DiFranco’s camp had to have it explained to them that luxuriating for a weekend at a site where mass murder and forced incarceration took place for centuries IS A BAD F—— IDEA. And I know this will seem like a stretch, (but I promise it’s not) I genuinely believe that this kind of attitude is directly related to the prevailing world-wide idea of anti-blackness.”
http://blogs.wsj.com/…/ani-difranco-cancels-retreat…/

blogs.wsj.com

Folk singer Ani DiFranco pulled the plug on a coming retreat at a former plantation outside of New Orleans after fans voiced outrage over the location of the event.

___________________________

“It’s not like I hadn’t given any thought to how it would feel to spend four days writing songs with my Ideas Colleagues on an infamous slavery site. We were going to bring really good vibes with us. Vibes of compassion, and also transformation, which as everyone knows is how you heal a plantation.

But there will be no vibes now. I am taking my vibes and my ideas and my compassion and I am going home to my Tempurpedic mattress because of your negative and unfortunate energy.”

http://the-toast.net/2013/12/30/note-from-ani-difranco/

the-toast.net

An open apology note from Ani DiFranco.

 

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(Update 1/5/13:  Stanley Jordan announces on his Facebook page that he’s not going to be performing at the Red Sea Jazz Festival, that his performance has been cancelled. )On December 24, Stanley Jordan made the following statement on his Facebook wall, asking for information to assist him in deciding how to respond to requests that he honor the BDS picket line of Israeli apartheid. While in the end, Jordan decided to cross the picket line (see the next entry on this blog), what ensued was an amazing discussion of the issue of solidarity, tactics and history of the Palestinian struggle for human rights and against Israeli settler colonialism and Western imperialism.https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=316499341791766&id=14690024059++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Stanley Jordan · 13,603 like this

December 24 at 9:22am ·

  • I’ve received several messages from people requesting that I cancel my performance at the Red Sea Jazz Festival in Israel. I promised a detailed response, so here it is. I would like to start a dialog right here to discuss this topic. Next to global warming the Middle East conflict is the biggest issue of our time, and it’s too important for black-and-white responses that ignore the nuances. And we truly need an open dialog with a spirit of mutual compassion for everyone involved. For my part, I want to use my talents and energies in the best possible way for the cause of peace. This purpose is deeply ingrained in my soul’s code, and I’ve known it since childhood. So the only remaining question is: How can I best accomplish this goal? I invite you all to weigh in. I’d like to start the discussion by recommending a wonderful book called, “Embracing Israel/Palestine: A Strategy to Heal and Transform the Middle East,” by Rabbi Michael Lerner. I’ve been reading a lot on this topic but this book stands out for me because it resonates with my own feelings. I encourage everyone to read it as background for our discussion. And please keep your comments clean and respectful. Let’s model the type of dialog that will eventually lead to a solution.http://www.amazon.com/Embracing-Israel-Palestine-Strategy-Transform/dp/1583943072

    Embracing Israel/Palestine: A Strategy to Heal and Transform the Middle East

    http://www.amazon.com

    A major modern conundrum is how the Arab/Israel conflict remains unresolved and, seemingly, unresolvable. In this inspirational book, Rabbi Michael Lerner suggests that a change in consciousness is crucial. With clarity and honesty, he examines how the mutual demonization and discounting of …
    1Unlike ·  · Share
    • Chuck Aring chilling thoughts Mr. Jordan. thank you for being you.
    • Annemarie Parrish Peace happens! Healing happens, and music is a great tool for peace!
    • Paul Fisher Hi Stanley, it’s been a while since we’ve seen each other, hope all is well with you and your family!

      Obviously the path to peace is prohibitively long and complicated, and deserves everyone’s energy, so I’ll add my 2 cents with this – my Mom was involved in helping to build the organization Seeds of Peace, who’s charter is to develop positive relationships between children from opposing backgrounds (initially Palestinians and Israelis, and now many many more nationalities and backgrounds), with the thinking that if they grow up respecting the differences among them instead of seeing them as divisions, Peace has a chance. See more here:

      http://www.seedsofpeace.org/

    • Patrizia Meloni Stanley….it’s very good!
    • John Diamond It’s Christmas. Good Tidings to all. May we have Peace on Earth. Thank you for helping, Mr. Jordan.
    • Jay Hunt Do not cancel!!! Play music, that’s what you do. In times of stress music is a great reliever healer. My favorite of yours has always been your rendition of Stairway to Heaven. It brings a good peaceful feeling to everyone in the room! Play on!!
    • Cynthia Farrell Music for peace! May God be with you and your family/friends as you travel to Israel.
    • Darren Miller Be a musician and play, let the politicians deal with that stuff.
    • Eric Geller Definitely go to Israel. If you start boycotting middle eastern countries, think about how every other country there treats its women and minorities.
    • Neno Svrzikapa Let your guitar do the talking  , and if you get invited to play in Palestine one day you should play there too.
    • Heather Angeloff Go where your heart leads you.
    • Lilo Chachamovits You know Mr. Jordan a few years ago I started looking for an answer to the following question: What does the words Human Being means? I got to only one satisfying answer: Human Being means Being Human. You see, it’s a verb which means action, something that we need to do actively. 

      I believe Peace is something that we need to find, and it takes a lot of action (as in Being Human) to get to it. Unfortunately, in my opinion, we are looking to the wrong place in order to find it. The outer world is a reflection of the inner world. What happens in the world is merely an image of what’s happening inside of us. Peace will be made by people who already found it. Who have found already inner peace. This way the work that needs to be done is to put all our efforts to evolve spiritually and achieve the conscious state which we refer to as Human Beings…get rid of our egos.

      Music can be a true expression of love and of someone’s inner self. It’s a powerful language of spirituality, which allows us to clean our thoughts and connect our mind with our heart, bringing a true understanding of life, of purpose, of peace…and you are a master in pouring your whole soul into your music and into your playing. 

      I live in Israel and I was a volunteer at the Peres Center for Peace. They have many wonderful projects involving Palestinians and Israelis…but I’m quite sure that they are still lacking a music project there. I believe that a partnership between you and them would allow the development of a pilot music project focused completely on promoting peace. And with this case model it would be able to spread the project all over the world, bringing warmth and care to a lot of people.

      I was involved with social business and sustainability projects for a while when I lived in Brazil. I had the dream that I could help change the world, I wanted to live in a better world, I actually can see this magical place people refer to as paradise happening right here, right now. By reading what you wrote here I felt you can see the same. 

      I realized that in order to change the whole world we simply need to change ourselves. I would love to be involved in a project like this. You are welcome to come for a cup of tea in my house when you are here in Israel.
      May the inspirational flows keep on blowing through your soul.
      Peace,
      Lilo
    • Stanley Jordan I’d like to hear from someone who supports the boycott. And perhaps there is more than one boycott organization–I really don’t know. My question is: What is the goal of the boycott, and what evidence do you have that my cancelling my show would help that cause?
    • Maury Peiperl Play on Stanley; your music will mean more for peace than your silence.
    • Meir Rivkin Dont punish your fans, they deserve u
    • Dan Sants Hello Stanley … This is Dan from Praia do forte, we met briefly at the backstage of tamar one day before your presentation on saturday! Wanted to quickly express my comment on this … Id see it better if you were there, at least being there you have the power of the word, of sending them a message about this situation! All though Im a little desapointed with atitude of Isreale towards keeping building the jewish housing, and desrespecting the UN, I believe that it is at times like this when we musician can somehow influence people with our music! The same music that makes someone come from playing on the street to be playing for the world and changing it in a way! You could def help much more by being there than being away from there! Tudo de bom, feliz natal! DS
    • Uragoner Too 1 Thessalonians 5:2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.
      3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.
      4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.
      5 Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.
    • Judy Haus Bradley I believe both parties are right in their feelings, beliefs, and desires. I don’t think politics or politicians will ever solve it. I believe it will be solved when the common people on both sides take over and decide to work it out between them. Play, Stanley! You can be a positive force for peace with your music and your message.
    • Vittorio Malatesta Play for Israel, play for Palestine the day after, and let them understand that they love the same things.
    • Cameron Keys Perhaps you could meet with the other excellent musicians at the Red Sea Jazz Festival and see if the artists could improvise a collective statement of solidarity among cultures. This could be done before, during, or even after the festival. Perhaps you could request that the concert promoters place an open invitation to local pillars of the jazz community (on all sides and in-betweens of the cultural conflict) who would join in your expression of solidarity? Those are my constructive proposals.

      Since the festival is so near at hand, it would be disrespectful to the concert promoters and fans to back out. To justify cancelling your performance I think it would be necessary to make a big stink, i.e. to make a rather elaborate ceremony of the cancellation so that it has maximum impact. But that is assuming someone could persuade or convince you that cancellation would accomplish something tangible in this elaborately difficult circumstance. 

      I could play Devil’s Advocate, since no one else is forthcoming. A common argument goes like this: Israeli leaders have a choice between expansion and security. They have faced this choice many times since the 1970s. Each time they have chosen expansion, which has perpetuated insecurity. UN Security Council Resolution 242 offers a way forward that all involved parties have expressed some agreement with. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Security_Council_Resolution_242) With the UN granting Palestine “non-member observer state” status through a democratic vote in November 2012, now is the time to move forward toward a “just peace”. However, Israel has since this time announced initial plans to move forward with settlements in disputed territory, which is counter-productive and unnecessary. You should therefore cancel your performance at the Red Sea Jazz Festival as a formal acknowledgement of the unacceptability of this Israeli policy. 

      Cancellation in itself will not produce benefits commensurate with the costs to your fans. If you simply cancelled without an eloquent and powerful justification, your reputation in the eyes of promoters and fellow musicians would also suffer unnecessarily. 

      I very much like the work Erik Truffaz did with electronic musician Murcof.

      en.wikipedia.org

      United NationsSecurity Council Resolution 242 (S/RES/242) was adopted unanimously by the UN Security Council on November 22, 1967, in the aftermath of the Six-Day War. It was adopted under Chapter VI of the United Nations Charter.[1] The resolution was sponsored by British ambassador Lord Caradon an…
    • Art Zasadny Play! Music spreads love…
    • Cameron Keys Of course, the situation I describe in the Devil’s Advocate argument is far too simple to account for reality. In truth, UN 242 is not an unambiguous or univocal document. For example, if Israel ceases expansion and claims that UN 242 is the reason for its decision to cease expansion, this opens the flood gates (from Israel’s perspective) related to territorial disputes that affect several million Israelis currently living in areas of Judea and Samaria. Further, UN 242 seeks freedom of navigation and ‘peace within secure and recognized boundaries’, which are abstract terms that mask immense disputes. Israel claims that freedom of navigation entails defenselessness; and the secure and recognized boundaries associated with arrangements prior to the 1967 Six-Day War are not recognized as secure or acceptable by Israel. Thus, if Israel backs off on the rhetoric of expansion, these long-standing conflicts emerge once again, and Israel’s rhetorical stance and physical security are perceived to weaken. This explains in part why Israel continues to choose expansion: because, from the perspective of their leadership, the alternative to expansion is not actually security, as many (such as Chomsky) have claimed.
    • Cameron Keys I wonder also what John Zorn would do if he was in your shoes, Stanley. …
    • Stanley Jordan Although Michael Lerner is a rabbi, his book is very balanced. I like the idea of searching for a spiritual solution. So far we’ve relied only on military, political and economic solutions- That approach has not been sufficient, and much of it has even been counterproductive.
    • Sue Gemmell Of interest: The Peace Factory connects between people in the middle east, see http://letthemtalk.org/

      letthemtalk.org

      peace, technology, poetry
    • Matthew Peter Morgan Thank you and I agree. There is only the spiritual evolution left to shift. How else can we get through without using physical force? We must continue the spiritual discipline that will then move the rest of the people in this direction.
    • Elise Hendrick We can start by respecting what is in effect a picket line called for by the occupied Palestinian population themselves.

      One of the key planks of the Palestinian call for boycott, divestiture, and sanctions is a clear opposition to any form of normalisation, by which they mean “encounter sessions” and other feel-good “dialogues” that do not explicitly acknowledge and seek to overcome the racist oppression of the indigenous Palestinian population.

      The language of “conflict” is misleading in the extreme, which is its purpose. The idea is to give the false impression of two equal sides who just don’t get on well. The reality is that one “side” has the 4th most deadly military in the world and has created an elaborate system of racist laws and “facts on the ground” in order to gradually destroy any semblance of social cohesion in the indigenous population.
    • Bob Perillo Yeah, the 4th most deadly military in the world, and backed by the world’s remaining superpower. Some “conflict.”
    • Gabriel Ash Hello Stanely, first, thanks for reaching out and trying to learn more about the question. I am an one of the many involved in organizing BDS campaigns. I am also a Jewish citizen of Israel, but I no longer live in Israel. I would like to make below a number of comments. 
      The conflict in Palestine does not have “two sides.” It is a situation of severe and overwhelming oppression of the indigenous people of Palestine by a colonial state. In the same way that you wouldn’t talk about “two sides” in relation to slavery, apartheid in South-Africa, or the genocide of native-Americans . Of course, in each of these cases, those who were engaged with apology for maintaining the oppression claimed otherwise, and the same is true in the case of Israel. So that’s the fundamental political divide. To say that that “two sides” is a wrong perspective is not to deny that Israelis exists, are human, have lives, etc. It means one thing, that the burden of ending the oppression is on Israel. Therefore, the challenge “to make peace” is misleading. True peace can only mean, as Martin Luther King defined it, “the present of justice”. The primary role of any person of conscience as I understand it is to put pressure on those who benefit from injustice to relent and open the possibility of justice and equality. That is the only road to peace. 
      BDS is a picket line, put by Palestinians who asked you, me, and everyone in the world who cares for justice to put that pressure by, among other things, boycotting Israel. I recommend the following detailed analysis about the role of culture in politics. http://www.pacbi.org/etemplate.php?id=2080
      You ask, how you can act as an artist to use your music in the cause of peace. The first task, it seems to me, is to listen. But in listening, please do not forget that your ability to listen is slanted by the medium. Being on facebook, for example, is not a neutral fact. It takes money, access to technology and free time to be able to converse with you on facebook, and the same is true on every other media. The voice of the oppressed is by definition the one that is less loud, less easy to hear, because part of oppression is of course the denial of access to those resources, and also because oppression is “normal” and therefore supporting it is comfortable. Please take that in consideration. If you listen passively, you will hear “both sides”, but in fact, you will hear the voice of power, the voice of the neutral buzz that power generates as the background musak of reality. To really listen, you have to listen actively, filtering that power out. 
      By going to play in Israel, you will be crossing a picket line, thus taking a political stand, one of dismissing the appeal of the oppressed. You will be playing in venues that will be segregated. The indigenous people of the land will not be allowed to come to your shows even if they wanted or knew about it. You may bring Israelis any message you want, but the one that they will hear louder is the one that your very presence will convey: your support for the normalcy of the situation, your acceptance that they should have the “right” to enjoy your music, and every other thing good in life, while actively denying it to others. They will also hear the message that you told Palestinians off and that will be an encouragement for doing nothing. As we know from what happened to others, the Israeli foreign minister will publicise your visit and point out that you too ignored the boycott call. You will become a recruit for maintaining the occupation whether you like it or not. 
      I urge you to go visit Palestine, to go play in Palestine, to bring Palestine in your music, but do not participate in official, “normal” business. You will not be bringing peace closer, you will be conveying the message that life goes on, normally, and it’s ok to keep millions of people under the gun while one is listening to music.

      www.pacbi.org

      This paper was prepared for the 7arakat Conference: Theatre, Cultural Diversity and Inclusion November  2012 and was first published in the 7arakat conference E:Proceedings. IntroductionInternational artists find themselves standing at a crossroad between their desire to support all forms of artisti…
    • Rima Najjar Dear Stanley:
      I would like to reiterate Gabriel Ash’s point that ‘the conflict in Palestine does not have “two sides.”’ It simply doesn’t – not in the sense that the two sides have legitimate grievances, and in order to resolve them we should hear both sides and find a solution in the middle. I am a Palestinian who does not live in Israel/Palestine simply because I cannot. I don’t have a choice like Gabriel, because I am not Jewish. I hope very much that you will heed the Palestinain call to boycott the event. I believe boycott and divestment is the only chance left for us to effect change in Israel (as happened in South Africa). Israel is officially an apartheid, racist, settler colonialist entity in the heart of the Middle East. The political process will never, ever effect change and the power equation is so uneven. Please help us.

      It’s Chrsitmas, and so here is a song for you from Bethlehem:
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=YtoIyqV34Ps

      www.youtube.com

      Filmed at the Church of the Nativity by our friends at Ethnographic Media for their upcoming film Little Town of Bethlehem, which follows the story of three …
    • Kevin Hornbuckle The boycott is the only way to peacefully protest Israel’s deadly subjugation of Palestine. Lobbying Israel does not work, nor do appeals to US lawmakers who force us to massively subsidize Israel’s occupation and theft of Palestinian land. The commenters on this thread who are urging a ‘peace from within’ justification to play at the jazz festival are giving spirituality (if you will) a bad name. Solidarity with the peacemakers is materially significant only by supporting the boycott. The bombing of Gaza was a gross, detestable international crime. To play on as if business-as-usual is to be complicit with Israel’s ability to commit more such crimes.
    • Emma Rosenthal Even if you decide to be neutral, you cannot go and perform in Israel. The only neutral position is to not go. Going is an act of complicity, of normalization (as has been well explained by Rima, Elise Hendrick and Gabriel Ash,) If you choose to support the boycott, don’t go, and say why you are not going. If you choose to be neutral, don’t go, and simply say you are not taking a side, have other commitments, can’t make the trip at this time. But under no circumstances is going and being neutral an option.

      Of course we would appreciate the strongest statement in support of human rights possible. But many artists have thought they could simply go in a neutral capacity. Some felt that if only THEY spoke to people from “both sides”, they could bring peace. There have been lots of talks, mostly used as a vehicle to postpone a resolution, while Isreal continues to expand settlements, steal water, land, resources, arrest people without charges or due process, commit exjudicial executions, control an entire subordinate and indigenous population. Dialogue doesn’t create peace unless peace is the intent. and Peace cannot be had at the barrel of a gun.
    • Emma Rosenthal Many artists think they can break down walls by performing, that art alone is transformative. But artists can hold walls up with their art, just as easily, easier in fact, even without that being the intent. A few artists who understood the situation the Palestinians face, felt that they could both break the boycott and support social justice. They found out that they could not. Pete Seeger disappointed many fans who knew him from years of social justice activism. He later realized exactly how his presence in Israel hurt the cause of social justice. 

      ” “I appeared on that virtual rally because for many years I’ve felt that people should talk with people they disagree with. But it ended up looking like I supported the Jewish National Fund. I misunderstood the leaders of the Arava Institute because I didn’t realize to what degree the Jewish National Fund was supporting Arava. Now that I know more, I support the BDS movement as much as I can.” “

      http://mondoweiss.net/2011/02/pete-seeger-endorses-boycott-of-israel.html

      mondoweiss.net

      Below is a press release issued by Adalah-NY and the Israeli Committee Against House Demolitions. For more background seetheseposts:
    • Rima Najjar Stanley, as you know South Africa’s ruling party (ANC) has officially endorsed Palestine’s Boycott, Divestment, and Sanctions campaign against Israel. In September, the Irish parliament voted to ban Israeli settlement imports. Earlier this month, an Israeli newspaper reported that the EU was looking into boycotting settlement goods, after Israel defied calls to stem construction of illegal settlement units in the West Bank. You can help the tide turn.

      The ANC added a clause to its pro-BDS resolution lashing out at Israel’s mistreatment of Africans, which culminated in the mass deportation of South Sudanese from Israel this year: “The ANC abhors the recent Israeli state-sponsored xenophobic attacks and deportation of Africans and request that this matter should be escalated to the African Union.”
    • Tom Pessah Stanley, I’m an Israeli activist who’s been involved in dialogue, protests, political parties, petitions etc since the 1980s. Please don’t disregard our experience: in Israel, just like anywhere else, entrenched interests won’t move out of the way because of “dialogue.” Those profiting from the occupation are well aware of it and still prefer their profits. Playing there won’t change that. But joining the worldwide boycott movement is a valuable non-violent way of building pressure that will eventually create change. Please think of us Israelis as well as show solidarity with the immense suffering of palestinians. It will be really valuable if you take a stand. There is no occupation that ever ended through dialogue alone, with no pressure. Please don’t perform there!
    • Tom Pessah “Power concedes nothing without a demand. It never did and it never will.” frederick douglass
    • Rima Najjar As Tom Pessah says, Stanley, think of both Israelis and Palestinians: “Not only is Israel harming Palestinians, but it is harming itself.” – Desmond Tutu
    • Tom Pessah a palestinian friend of mine is barred from traveling to Jerusalem, the city where she was born. So many are. So many will be missing from your audience if you chose to perform.
    • Rima Najjar Me too, Stanley. I teach at a Palestinian university walled off from Jerusalem, which is literally a few yards away as the crow flies. I am a Palestinian American and was denied entry to the West Bank twice – had to hire lawyers to re-enter. Now I have an entry permit that says, “not permitted to work” and “Judea and Samaria only” – meaning I cannot enter Jerusalem and I am working illegally. My grandfather’s house in Lifta, a village to the north west of Jerusalem, is inhabited by a Jewish family. The rest of the village is in ruins.
    • Cameron Keys I am so glad people have offered serious arguments here. While I find them persuasive, I do not find them yet convincing. It would be equally acceptable to travel to the Festival and call for widespread support of the boycott from the stage — a possibility no one has acknowledged, but one that might be even more powerful. This would allow you the artist the freedom to determine the manner of your involvement: you could play, or not play; remain silent, or speak out. You could literally place yourself in that situation and feel with your own heart in the moment whether it is right to speak out, and if so, how. This is all to say that I am not convinced that your presence at the Festival is inherently a sign of complicity. In fact, your presence has more potency than your absence, for the reasons I have just enumerated.
    • Rima Najjar I am sorry, Cameron, but I find that your own argument is unconvincing. As Emma Rosenthal points out above:

      Many artists think they can break down walls by performing, that art alone is transformative. But artists can hold walls up with their art, just as easily, easier in fact, even without that being the intent. A few artists who understood the situation the Palestinians face, felt that they could both break the boycott and support social justice. They found out that they could not. Pete Seeger disappointed many fans who knew him from years of social justice activism. He later realized exactly how his presence in Israel hurt the cause of social justice. 

      ” “I appeared on that virtual rally because for many years I’ve felt that people should talk with people they disagree with. But it ended up looking like I supported the Jewish National Fund. I misunderstood the leaders of the Arava Institute because I didn’t realize to what degree the Jewish National Fund was supporting Arava. Now that I know more, I support the BDS movement as much as I can.” “
    • Tom Pessah Cameron, crossing the picket line will not be “equally acceptable”, it will be a clear sign of disrespect towards the call of over sixty Palestinian civil society organizations who have called for the boycott, as well as their many supporters around the world. http://pacbi.org/etemplate.php?id=868 I see no reason to ignore them.

      pacbi.org

      ‎”The end of apartheid stands as one of the crowning accomplishments of the past century, but we would not have succeeded without the help of international pressure– in particular the divestment movement of the 1980s. Over the past six months, a similar movement has taken shape, this time aiming at …
    • Cameron Keys Are Rima and Tom suggesting that the meaning of Stanley’s presence at the Festival would be determined solely by the perceptions of civil society organizations, or Israeli media, etc? What about the freedom of the artist — for example, perhaps Pete Seeger could have done something different at the virtual rally that would have prevented him from looking as if he supported the Jewish National Fund? He could have worn a special t-shirt — simple things like that can change perceptions and change the meaning of an artist’s presence. Let us keep making these good arguments and expressing tensions, I feel we are getting closer to some set of choices that embodies a spiritual solution.
    • Gabriel Ash Cameron Keys: The freedom of the artist is a matter of law. None of the people arguing here have any power to physically or legally prevent Stanely from playing in Israel, and if we had such power, we would not have used it. By asking artists to abide by the boycott call, we do not COERCE anybody, and we do not infringe on any right. The call of conscience is not in opposition to freedom, on the contrary, the only meaning of freedom is the freedom to act in accordance to conscience. So the fact that we are adamantly saying that it would be wrong, morally and politically, for artists to disrespect and ignore the Palestinian request of solidarity, does not undermine the freedom of the artist, on the contrary, it is an appeal to precisely that freedom. Artists can do wrong like anybody else. To point that out is not to infringe on their freedom.
    • Rima Najjar Yes, Gabriel – this would be a moral and political act on Stanley’s part. But Stanley is also concerned with the question of whetther his boycotting the performance will make any practical difference. I just want to say that I believe it will – and not onlly because other measures to get Israel to do the right thing have failed so miserably in the past (backfired, some of them, as Stanley himself puts it), but also because, as a tactic, boycott of this nature coupled with divestment have been shown to be effective in South Africa.
    • Rima Najjar Cameron, speaking of freedom of expression, please see this from Amnesty International:
      Israel anti-boycott law an attack on freedom of expression

      http://www.amnesty.org/en/news-and-updates/israel-anti-boycott-law-attack-freedom-expression-2011-07-12

      www.amnesty.org

      The law makes it an offence to call for a boycott against the state of Israel or its West Bank settlements.
    • June Rugh Stanley, I hope you will take a clear stance against the apartheid state of Israel by respecting the boycott/BDS movement, which was originated by Palestinian organizations and is supported by many forward-thinking Israelis, as well as by many in the United States and throughout Europe – and gaining wider support every day. The venerable folk singer/activist Pete Seeger (age 92) recently decided to endorse the boycott, after doing extensive research. You say that you want to use your talents and energies in the best possible way for peace, which is wonderful. The boycott is a clear, nonviolent way forward to peace *with justice* and I hope that you, as a widely respected musician, will see the profound necessity for supporting it.
      http://mondoweiss.net/2011/02/pete-seeger-endorses-boycott-of-israel.html

      mondoweiss.net

      Below is a press release issued by Adalah-NY and the Israeli Committee Against House Demolitions. For more background seetheseposts:
    • Sylvia Posadas Stanley, I am prepared to be very patient and work through any questions you might have about the intrinsic spiritual logic of the boycott. As we strive together for understanding toward the truth, so that liberation and healing may be facilitated it may be worth considering that Gandhi and Martin Luther King also saw their people’s struggle for freedom through non-violent resistance as a journey of the spirit.
    • Gabriel Ash On the question of effectiveness. Nobody can promise what will or will not be effective. It is the nature of political acts that there are necessarily uncertain with regards to their effects. The general arguments as to why the boycott is effective involves two parts. One, dialogue attempts have proven to be not only ineffective, but positively sapping, in that it allows governments and other actors to pretend they are engaged while not doing anything that challenges the reality of oppression. Two, for historical reasons Israelis are deeply concerned, indeed obsessed, by their identity as part of the “West” (as slogans such “the only democracy in the Middle East” reveals). Therefore, Western artists have an enormous power to pierce into Israeli consciousness by being clear that Israel is beyond the pale in its behavior. Desmund Tutu made the point that it was precisely that kind of dynamics that made the boycott of South African sport teams effective and a powerful contribution to the end of apartheid. 

      “Many of you will remember how effective the sports boycott of the 1970s and 1980s was in conveying to sport-crazy South Africans that our society had placed itself beyond the pale by continuing to organise its life on the basis of racial discrimination. Your refusal to kow-tow to racism was the sanction that hurt the supporters of apartheid the most, and for those of us who suffered the effects of discrimination nothing could have shown us more vividly the principal value enshrined in the preamble to the Spirit of Cricket, which Lord Cowdrey and Ted Dexter later helped to introduce to the laws of the game, the value of which is all the more powerful for the simplicity of its statement, and that of course is fair play. For 20 years, as the sports boycott tightened and apartheid stopped generations of South African sportsmen and women, both white and black, realising their full potential, you and others like you drummed into us what the world saw as fair play and what it saw as unfair play. I have not the slightest doubt that what you did played a major role in persuading the supporters of apartheid to change their ways and, in the negotiations that followed F.W. de Klerk’s courageous decision to release Nelson Mandela in 1990, to agree on a constitution based on the principle, also enshrined in the Spirit of Cricket, of respect for others.” (http://www.lords.org/laws-and-spirit/spirit/mcc-spirit-of-cricket-cowdrey-lecture/2008-cowdrey-lecture-full-text,990,AR.html )

      But I want to return to the crucial point about uncertainty. Devising political strategies is hard and the only chance it has to be of value is that is comes from a deep and long engagement driven by the people at the heart of the struggle. It is presumptuous to come out of a blue and decide “I think this is ineffective. I think that is effective.” BDS is not a whim. It is a national strategy, organised by over 100 associations, based on years of engagement and experience. The right thing to say about effectiveness is “I don’t know, but this is what THEY think would help them” and if one want to help, this is where one begins.
    • Stanley Jordan To be honest, it’s very frustrating for me because these borders undermine everything my music is about. I’ve already played multiple times in Israel, UAE, Lebanon and Turkey, and i’ve played in Egypt as well. I am currently the headliner of the Red Sea Jazz Festival. I committed to this performance before the recent wave of fighting and before I knew anything about the BDS boycotts. I don’t understand why I can’t play for Palestinians–it makes no sense at all! If they can’t come to where I am, I’d love to find a way to bring my music to them.
    • Rima Najjar Interestingly enough, “pale” in the expression “beyond the pale” that Gabriel uses above referred historically to the term “Pale of Settlement” as applied to the area in the west of Imperial Russia where Jews were permitted to reside. Ironically, the illegal settlements and settlement blocs Israel is so busy erecting on Palestinian lands are depriving Palestinians of resources, livelihoods as well as dignity.
    • June Rugh Stanley, Your fellow musicians, Stevie Wonder (scheduled to perform at a gala for Israeli Defense Forces) and jazz vocalist Cassandra Wilson (scheduled to perform at a women’s music festival in Holon, Israel), both recently canceled their performances in Israel out of respect the boycott. So you’d be in good company. There is a strong parallel here to the musicians who ultimately refused to perform at the very lucrative Sun City resort in South Africa in the 1980s, in protest of the then-apartheid state of South Africa. This culminated in Steven Van Zandt founding the group Artists United Against Apartheid, and recording the “Sun City” anti-apartheid protest album in 1985 with over 40 artists including Miles Davis, Bob Dylan, Jimmy Cliff, Pat Benatar, Herbie Hancock, Run–D.M.C., Peter Gabriel, Bob Geldof, Clarence Clemons, Arika Bambaataa, Jackson Browne, U2, George Clinton, Keith Richards, Ronnie Wood, Bonnie Raitt, Hall & Oates, Gil-Scott Heron, Nona Hendryx, and Joey Ramone. 
      If you’re looking for a model of politically and spiritually enlightened activism combined with artistic excellence, there it is. You are a musician of profound talent and deep integrity, and I truly hope you will see the parallel and follow a similar path.
    • Rima Najjar Stanley, come and play in Ramallah – as a gesture of solidarity with the Palestinian people. But that will be meaningful (morally and politically) only if you boycott the Israeli performance. But, since Israel controls all borders, you might not be allowed in.
    • Karen MacRae You can’t play for the Palestinians because they have been placed under military occupation, their movements restricted, their human and civil rights have been stripped, apartheid conditions imposed and most importantly, Palestinian civil society has issued a call to all conscientious citizens of the world to honour their boycott, their picket line, as a method of resistance to attain their liberation. They have requested you specifically to support them. Do you understand? They are asking you not to. Oppressed people are requesting you to honour their request. This isn’t about you. It’s about them. This is why you can’t play. I suggest you cancel until everyone can share your music together, equally, regardless of what religion/ethnic background they may have been born into. Then go.
    • Rima Najjar Dear Stanley – I realize this is difficult for you. Your plans have all been laid out and maybe we seem very remote from your life. Please give it serious consideration and thank you for opening this forum to allow us to talk to you. As June Rugh says above: “If you’re looking for a model of politically and spiritually enlightened activism combined with artistic excellence, there it is. You are a musician of profound talent and deep integrity, and I truly hope you will see the parallel and follow a similar path.”
    • Gabriel Ash Stanley Jordan: Yes, these borders also undermine everything we are about, everything every free human being. But neither Palestinians, nor the activists here who ask you not to cross the picket line, have set up these borders. These borders are forced on us. They are there to prevent people from enjoying freedom, land and yes, music too. We are fighting them. Please be part of that fight. When you cross a border with a Visa issued by a government that prevents millions of people from moving freely, and allow you to pass simply because you are not a Palestinian, you are not crossing any border, you are helping to maintain the border. I understand it is frustrating. Please try to imagine how frustrating it is to live under apartheid.
    • Sa’ed Adel Atshan Stanley, I am a very big fan of yours, and truly appreciate your willingness to engage in this discussion and to hear Palestinian voices in particular. I recently wrote an article regarding Joy Harjo’s performance in Tel Aviv and the BDS movement. Please consider reading it. Thanks for your time.http://indiancountrytodaymedianetwork.com/mobile/tags/sa%E2%80%99ed-adel-atshan

      indiancountrytodaymedianetwork.com

    • Lisa Hayeem Carver A few years ago a group of Arab and Israeli musicians got together and did some music for the cause of peace- I think they are still around and you may be able to connect with them- I can’t figure out how to attach the link, but if you search for http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5d_i2F2LlF8, or put in r “shalom2salam” on youtube you can find one of the songs and information.

      www.youtube.com

      A beautiful song with an inspiring message. There are many Israelis, Palestinians, and Arabs working for peace, and this Middle-Eastern jazzy song should be …
    • Alexandra Ferentinos Stanley, I hope you can listen to Palestinian spoken word artist Rafeef Ziadah make the case for the cultural boycott around 32 minutes into this video and to read her arguments below, thank you.
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CPvV8QZE35w

      Palestine and the Cultural Boycott by Rafeef Ziadah
      http://www.zcommunications.org/palestine-and-the-cultural-boycott-by-rafeef-ziadah

      www.youtube.com

      A Palestine Solidarity Campaign film. http://www.palestinecampaign.org/ The Case For Cultural & Academic Boycott Of Israel with introduction from Ken Loach Sp…
    • Rima Najjar Here in the West Bank, we call that “normalization” (response to Lisa Carver’s post above). It’s acting as if Israel is a normal state simply going about its business, like any other country, to engage in artistic expression. Fact is, Israel is not a normal state like any other. It is apartheid, racist, expansionis and settler colonialist. Acting as if it’s “normal” undermines the Palestinian cause. It doesn’t matter if you are Arab, American or Brazilian. “By crossing the border, you are helping to maintain the border”.
    • Tom Pessah Stanley, if you are searching for a model of spirituality: in the 1960s, Rabbi Abraham Joshua Heschel, one of the great Jewish leaders of his generation, marched together with Dr. King.http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/e/e4/SelmaHeschelMarch.jpg . He said “when I march in Selma, my legs are praying.” Just as Heschel joined Dr. King’s call, respectfully and modestly, out of solidarity, we are asking you to perform a similar act of solidarity, to link hands with palestinians and their supporters around the world, including Israelis who want a just peace, like me. Refusing to perform will send a stronger message than anything you can say while you are there.

      as Sa’ed wrote, supporters of the boycott include Alice Walker, Angela Davis, Archbishop Desmond Tutu, Naomi Klein, Judith Butler, Roger Waters, Jewish Voice for Peace.

    • Rima Najjar Together, in the words of Dr. Martin Luther King during the height of the civil rights movement in the United States, we—the Palestinians and humanitarians worldwide—shall overcome.
    • Stanley Jordan I am perfectly willing right now to boycott the settlements and the settlers, These are clear-cut violations of the 1967 borders. But to expand the boycott to Israel as a whole raises the question: How far does this go? I’ve played extensively in Muslim countries such as UAE, Lebanon, Turkey, Egypt and Jordan. Many of these places have policies and even laws that specifically target Jewish people. So shouldn’t I boycott them as well? Also, the USA has been accused of covertly aiding Israel in oppressing the Palestinians. Does this mean I have to boycott my own country too? If we musicians boycott every country that commits atrocities, there would be no music in the world! This would undoubtedly lead to even more conflict and less understanding. Some of you are Israelis who support the boycott, and I really admire your courage, by the way! But why should we outsiders bare the economic brunt of the boycotts? You want me to quit my job, so then shouldn’t you be quitting yours too? After all, any economic activity aids Israel and can be seen as de facto normalization. There’s no attack here– I’m just asking. And thanks everyone for the respectful discussion!
    • Rima Najjar Stanley, I’ll start by responding to one part of your message at a time. “Many of these places have policies and even laws that specifically target Jewish people. So shouldn’t I boycott them as well?”

      Well, you are making a faulty analogy here – a fallacy. You are assuming that because two things are alike in one or more respects, they are necessarily alike in some other respect. Let’s assume that the laws you mention exist and are detrimental to Jews. How does this come close or compare to to the Palestinian situation and the justice they are calling for? It doesn’t.
    • Rima Najjar You say, “the USA has been accused of covertly aiding Israel in oppressing the Palestinians. Does this mean I have to boycott my own country too?” No, the logic of the boycott of Israel doesn’t extend that far. However, it would be great if you wouuld oppose your country’s policy in a meaningful way – like addressing members of Congress to counteract AIPAC’s power.
    • Emma Rosenthal You make a really good point–but the settlements don’t exist on their own. They are supported and maintained and expanded by the state of Israel. Nothing happens in the settlements that isn’t Israeli policy. Settlements didn’t bomb and seize Gaza, settlements didn’t build the wall or operate check points, or harass Palestinians in airports or deny equal rights to Palestinians inside the 67 borders. Settlements don’t prevent Rima from going to Jerusalem or getting a job or having legal status in her own land, or visiting and reclaiming her ancestral home. One cannot separate the settlements from Israel. Israel certainly doesn’t. If the issue were just the settlements, Israel could have taken care of that issue unilaterally.
    • Stanley Jordan Rima,–I agree that atrocities and suffering are not all equal. I’m merely asking where do we draw the line? Can we agree that reasonable people can disagree as to where to draw the line? I’m sure there are people who will say sincerely that I should be boycotting some of these other countries as well.
    • Rima Najjar You say, “But why should we outsiders bare the economic brunt of the boycotts? You want me to quit my job, so then shouldn’t you be quitting yours too?” It sounds like you are looking at this from a financial point of view (rather than the ethics and morality we have been discussing). As a Palestinian, I say, no. If going to this performance in Israel is your livelihood, don’t starve your family. Afterall, life is so bitter here for some Palestinians that they are the labor that builds illegal israeli settlements and that has built the wall. Man got to eat.
    • Emma Rosenthal Also, the call to boycott comes from the people directly impacted by that boycott. It comes from within Palestinian civil society, which exists throughout all of occupied historic Palestine. At this point anyone suggesting a 2 state solution is being disingenuous, as Israel shows no real interest in that proposal. It demands control over the entire territory, but with different laws and benefits to the different communities. The only just solution is full equal and civil rights in all of historic Palestine. At this point, and because of Israeli policy (called, establishing facts on the ground), there is no other possibility. Israel, while it was participating in dialogue, was busy, very busy building roads and settlements and walls and road blocks to assure that there would never be any real, any viable 2 state solution. There already exists a one state solution, the only demand is that it be a just one. When Israel presents other options perhaps we could seriously discuss them.
    • Alex Reza Also, I think the reason we support and abide by BDS is because Palestinian civil society as a whole has called for this after many years of attempts at peaceful negotiations with Israel that have gotten nowhere. BDS is a tactic towards achieving a just peace, not a goal in itself.

      Regarding the countries you mention with whatever problematic laws they may have- there are probably movements in those countries to change those laws, and we should support those movements. However, to my knowledge, none of those movements believe that boycott of the countries will improve the situation or further their cause. However, Palestinians, after decades of thoughtful work, have come to this conclusion. We should support activists in these communities by respecting the work they have done and the solidarity they have asked us to show.
    • Rima Najjar Stanley, you say: Can we agree that reasonable people can disagree as to where to draw the line? I’m sure there are people who will say sincerely that I should be boycotting some of these other countries as well.

      Well, you are drawing the line at the start line. It’s easy to take any argument to its absurd conclusion. As for people who would sincerely say you should, they are being absurd.
    • Gabriel Ash Stanley Jordan: Thank you again for your engagement. Let me try to answer your question. 

      1. The boycott here is not an abstract moral posture. We are not asking you to boycott Israel because Israel is bad. Lots of things are bad. There are horrible government all over the world committing terrible acts. Boycott is a strategy, developed in view of a. what’s possible. b. what is likely to have impact. c. what’s legitimate. Part of that is that it requested by the victims on the basis of a rational argument. This is what you can do to help put pressure on Israel to stop doing a,b,c. If the victims of the Egyptian government asked you to boycott Egypt on similar grounds (feasibility, legitimate demands, legitimate target, likelihood for impact), then absolutely, you should boycott Egypt. But you shouldn’t boycott Egypt just because it has a government that does something wrong in the abstract. Then, you’d be right, you’d have to boycott everything. But this is not what is asked here. 

      2. The target of the boycott is based on responsibility and impact, not symbolism. Israel, the state, and behind the state, the society, not the settlements, is responsible for the oppression of Palestinians. The settlements are ONE aspect of the oppression. They are not the sovereign entity making the decision to oppress. It is Israel that builds settlements, and it is Israeli society that elects politicians who build settlements. The settlements do not build themselves.

      3. While there is value in boycotting settlements, this is almost irrelevant to the cultural boycott, as artists are never asked to go to settlements. You cannot help Palestinians that way. It would be a meaningless gesture. 

      More in a separate comment
    • Emma Rosenthal When Palestinians and supporters protest anywhere in Israeli controlled territories– in any part of historic Palestine, Israel responds with incredible brutality. The weapons we are seeing at demonstrations in the U.S. are practiced on demonstrators in Israel/Palestine. Demonstrations aren’t respected. They are attacked by the soldiers. There is no non-violent means, aside from boycott that Palestinians can participate in, without being subjected to incredible state brutality. This is a non-violent international protest of support that has had already an enormous impact and is very terrifying for Israel’s supporters because it challenges the regime.
    • Gabriel Ash About the economic question. Our economic decisions, for all of us, are part of our lives and part of our impact on others. Every political demand has economic impact on other people. Examples: when nurses strike, why should patient suffer? Is it legitimate to protest against overuse of prisons if this threatens the jobs of prison wardens? Responding to a political demand involves costs, and those who oppress work hard to spread the costs so as many as possible would benefit from oppression and try to keep it going. Forgoing sales of tickets in Israel is a cost, and it does affect artists. Is it an unreasonable cost? Palestinian society is asking you to make a small sacrifice so that they too can live in dignity and enjoy things that you and I take for granted, like being able to travel.

      • Rich Siegel Mr. Jordan- I am a Jewish-American musician (pianist/vocalist/songwriter) and I’d like to respectfully request that you honor the boycott, that you please do not “cross the picket line”, please do not disrespect the request from the people of Palestine. I have written a song and produced a video around it, which includes two talks- one given by me, the other by my co-writer, also Jewish. The video does not directly address the issue of BDS, but it does discuss how some Jewish Americans, like myself, have educated ourselves beyond the tribal loyalties that we were raised with, and come to support the people that our own people are oppressing. I respectfully request 12 minutes of your time. Thanks and Merry Christmas! http://www.vimeo.com/6630724

    • Rima Najjar The fact is, Stanley, the Palestinian people are oppressed by Israel in a very particular way and we are asking you, from a humanitarian point of view, to help us achieve self determination. You should know that Israel will capitalize on your presence there, your good name, to show/tell the world that it is a “normal” country. You will normalize apartheid and ethnic cleansing by participating in this activity. If it’s a question of money, I wish I had it to give compensate you.
    • Karen MacRae I think it’s important to note that those other countries are routinely condemned and punished for the crimes they have carried out. Israel is not. It’s It holds the dubious honour of having violated the most UN resolutions in the history of the UN. (or thereof) The question isn’t so much are they singled out but rather shouldn’t they be held to the same standards as those other countries? If there were any campaigns launched in those other countries, yes, moral people should and would endorse those campaigns unconditionally as we are endorsing the Palestinian’s campaign. Supporting BDS is a part of a global commitment to human rights and equality.
    • Emma Rosenthal I would like to remind people that while it’s very important to respect the boycott, it is also important to respect the Palestinian call to keep the issue focused on human rights, and not “Jewish tribalism” and Judaism, that this is a struggle against settler colonialism and western imperialism, and the ethnicity/religion of the dominant group is not what is at issue, at least to those who are making the call.
    • Gail Nelson The Palestinian boycott call targets cultural institutions, projects and events that continue to serve the purposes of the Israeli colonial and apartheid regime. See sponsors of the Red Sea Jazz Festival. And, courage to Stanley Jordan, for his deep consideration of the plight of the Palestinian people, the refugees, and those in Gaza and the Occupied West Bank. If only more artists would share his concern for human rights, this world would be a better place!http://www.redseajazzeilat.com/en/sponsors/

      www.redseajazzeilat.com

      Red Sea Jazz Festival – Sponsors
    • Bob Perillo Cameron Keys : “It would be equally acceptable to travel to the Festival and call for widespread support of the boycott from the stage — a possibility no one has acknowledged, but one that might be even more powerful.” That would be like calling for a boycott of Ford while you’re at the local dealership getting ready to drive away in your new Explorer.
    • Stanley Jordan Thanks to all for your messages. I’ve been traveling today and I need to get some sleep. I’ll read everything in the morning and respond. Good night!
    • Rima Najjar No matter what you decide, thank YOU Stanley Jordan for giving us the opportunity to talk to you and God bless.
    • Emma Rosenthal “The “apartheid Israel state” is worse than the apartheid that was conducted in South Africa, Willie Madisha, the Congress of SA Trade Unions president, said today. He said Palestinians were being attacked with heavy machinery and tanks used in war which had never happened in South Africa. Cosatu and other organisations supporting Palestine have called on government to end diplomatic relations with Israel and establish boycotts and sanctions such as those against apartheid South Africa.”

      http://palsolidarity.org/2006/07/worse-than-sa/

      palsolidarity.org

      from the South African Broadcasting Corporation, July 10th The “apartheid Israel state” is worse than the apartheid that was conducted in South Africa, Willie Madisha, the Congress of S…
    • Emma Rosenthal http://www.cosatu.org.za/show.php?ID=4116
      “COSATU salutes the decision by the South African Ministry of Tourism not to attend the 86th Session of the Organisation for Economic Cooperation and Development’s (OECD) Tourism Committee conference to be hosted by Israel in Jerusalem. By its decision, South Africa now joins Britain, Spain and Turkey who have all refused to attend the conference.”

      www.cosatu.org.za

      COSATU salutes the decision by the South African Ministry of Tourism not to attend the 86th Session of the Organisation for Economic Cooperation and Development’s (OECD) Tourism Committee conference to be hosted by Israel in Jerusalem. By its decision, South Africa now joins Britain, Spain and Turke…
    • Andy Griggs http://www.pacbi.org/etemplate.php?id=1917

      www.pacbi.org

      This letter is published with author’s permission. June 9, 2012 Dear Publishers at Yediot Books, Thank you so much for wishing to publish my novel THE COLOR PURPLE.  It isn’t possible for me to permit this at this time for the following reason:  As you may know, last Fall in South Africa the Russell…
    • Elise Hendrick “Cameron Keys : “It would be equally acceptable to travel to the Festival and call for widespread support of the boycott from the stage — a possibility no one has acknowledged, but one that might be even more powerful.”

      Yes, it would be a powerful tool in the hands of regime propagandists, who could then say (and rightly, at that) “What a load of hypocrites this BDS mob are! They collect their appearance fees, and call for boycott from the stage!”
    • Rima Najjar Over Xmas Eve & Xmas Day, Israel announced 1,200 new settlement houses http://bit.ly/WDAlu6 & a settlement universityhttp://bit.ly/ReWdwE

      www.jpost.com

      Plan includes 930 apartments for immediate construction and around 300 that could be built at a later time.
    • Elise Hendrick Stanley Jordan: “I am perfectly willing right now to boycott the settlements and the settlers, These are clear-cut violations of the 1967 borders. But to expand the boycott to Israel as a whole raises the question: How far does this go? “

      It’s an understandable question, but Israel has already answered it. Those illegal settlements are fully integrated into existing Israeli institutions. The impunity of marauding “ideological settlers” who routinely harass, brutally attack, or even murder Palestinians, and destroy their homes and farms, is guaranteed by the Israeli military and the Israeli police. The funding for the construction of those settlements is at least partially fronted by the Israeli government. The tax incentives for people to illegally move into the illegal settlements are offered by the Israeli government. As far as the Israeli regime is concerned, Ma’aleh Adumim and Ariel are as much part of Israel as Tel Aviv and Haifa. 

      Drawing the line at settlements is certainly appealing for the reasons you mention, but the line is illusory.
    • Rima Najjar Homes Demolished in Israel and Palestine

      0 Israeli homes have been demolished by Palestinians and over 27,000 Palestinian homes have been demolished by Israel since 1967

      http://www.ifamericansknew.org/stats/homes.html

      www.ifamericansknew.org

      If Americans Knew is dedicated to providing Americans with everything they need to know about Israel and Palestine.
    • Peter Lippman Boycott is a very honorable traditional method of resistance of injustice and I encourage you to participate in the world-wide academic and cultural boycott of Israel – not just the Occupied Territories. The economies of the Territories and Israel proper are thickly interconnected and a contribution to one of them is a vote of confidence for the entire system of apartheid.
      The use of the term “apartheid” in the context of Israel and the Territories is not hyperbole – the situation of two different sets of laws for two peoples on the same land and in the same legal system fits the definition of apartheid perfectly.
      A boycott against Israeli apartheid is not anti-Semitic; it’s not against Jews, nor is it even truly “anti-Israel.” It’s a pro-human rights measure and, for that matter, it’s a moral, non-violent form of action – one we can take without waiting for our “leaders” to take a moral stance.
      Thanks much for opening up to this discussion.
    • Rima Najjar FROM Letter from Alice Walker to Publishers at Yediot Books
      Dear Publishers at Yediot Books,

      “Thank you so much for wishing to publish my novel THE COLOR PURPLE. It isn’t possible for me to permit this at this time for the following reason: As you may know, last Fall in South Africa the Russell Tribunal on Palestine met and determined that Israel is guilty of apartheid and persecution of the Palestinian people, both inside Israel and also in the Occupied Territories. The testimony we heard, both from Israelis and Palestinians (I was a jurist) was devastating. I grew up under American apartheid and this was far worse. Indeed, many South Africans who attended, including Desmond Tutu, felt the Israeli version of these crimes is worse even than what they suffered under the white supremacist regimes that dominated South Africa for so long.”
    • Gabriel Ash excellent analysis of how incoming musicians are recruited to serve state interests.

      http://pulsemedia.org/2012/12/12/israel-2012-the-question-of-a-nation-what-does-culture-have-to-do-with-politics/

      pulsemedia.org

      The interesting thing about Israel is that its government and registered citizens have a wonky spatial perception, which feeds off itself: In Israel, you’re not in the state, the state is in you. D…
    • Rima Najjar Stanley, for your convenience, here is a summary of the heart of the article Gabriel Ash posted: As a BDS activist, whose main focus is cultural boycott, Tali Shapiro has come up against a very common Israeli claim (individuals, small business, and government officials) that “culture has nothing to do with politics”. 

      Shapiro goes on to explain that, in fact, CULTURE HAS EVERYTHING TO DO WITH POLITICS, because, in branding Israel, much of Israel’s propaganda is based on the blurring of the lines between the individual and the state (and army). This is how it works:

      1.Cultural product is commissioned by an official Israeli body or non-Israeli institution that serves Brand Israel or similar propaganda purposes.
      2.Product is funded by an official Israeli body, but not commissioned (no political strings).
      3.Event is partially or fully sponsored or funded by an official Israeli body or a complicit institution.
      4.Event or project promotes false symmetry or “balance”.
    • Joe Wazwaz Open Letter to Stanley Jordan; You oughta know it’s apartheid, don’t support IDF Israel.
      Dear Stanley Jordan

      We are writing to you to ask that you not cross the Palestinian picket line by supporting the IDF in Israel in your trip to Israel. As we write, the people of Gaza, who live in the world’s largest open-air prison, are being subjected to nightly airstrikes by Israel, a few miles from where you would be playing to a segregated audience. Last week, humanitarian activists trying to break the illegal, immoral siege of Gaza were kidnapped in international waters, tasered and imprisoned in Israel. Their crime? Showing solidarity to the Palestinian people.

      Last month the United Nations issued a report: “Gaza in 2020, a Liveable Place?” [1] focusing on Gaza’s precarious situation, particularly regarding power supply, water, education and employment. Gaza’s 1.6 million people, most of them refugees and over half of them children, are held in a tiny piece of land with their movements controlled by Israel and their basic human rights denied, they are also terrorised by drone planes and military incursions regularly. Can you imagine that human beings are being treated like this? Can you imagine supporting for the state that does this? Amnesty International, an organisation that you have supported, has documented Israel’s war crimes in Gaza, as have many other NGOs. [2]

      Were this Israel’s only breach of human rights, it should be enough for you not to support in Israel. However, Israel is also guilty of gross human rights violations against the Palestinian people living in the West Bank and the Palestinian citizens of Israel. In November 2011 the Russell Tribunal on Palestine determined that Israel is practising apartheid against the Palestinian people. [3] Its session in New York this month saw submissions from Stevie Wonder, Alice Walker, Angela Davis and Roger Waters among others and made the following findings:

      “Among these violations of international law, several of them are criminally sanctioned: war crimes (Israeli settlements, inhumane treatment, torture, indiscriminate attacks, home demolitions, forced population transfer, collective punishment, 1996 ILC Draft Code of crimes against the peace and security of mankind, Art. 20; 4th GC, Art. 147, Rome Statute Art. , crimes against humanity (persecution defined by the International Criminal Court (ICC) Statute cited here as expression of international custom, Art. 7), and the crime of Apartheid (1973 UN Convention, Art. 1 ; on Apartheid and persecution, see 2011 Capetown findings of this Tribunal). Because of their systematic, numerous, flagrant and, sometimes, criminal character, these violations are of a particularly high gravity.” [4]

      Archbishop Desmond Tutu described the situation thus: “I have been to the Occupied Palestinian Territory, and I have witnessed the racially segregated roads and housing that reminded me so much of the conditions we experienced in South Africa under the racist system of Apartheid. International Boycotts, Divestment and Sanctions against the Apartheid regime, combined with the mass struggle inside South Africa, led to our victory … Just as we said during apartheid that it was inappropriate for international artists to perform in South Africa in a society founded on discriminatory laws and racial exclusivity, so it would be wrong … to perform in Israel“. [5]

      As a means of resistance to this apartheid, Palestinian civil society, like its South African counterpart during their struggle, has called for a boycott of Israel until it complies with international law and Universal Principles of Human Rights. The PACBI (Palestinian Campaign for the Academic and Cultural Boycott of Israel) call [6] for BDS, made by over 200 civil society organisations, is growing in international support daily and the list of artists respecting the call includes: Santana, Cat Power, Elvis Costello, Cassandra Wilson, Massive Attack, Jello Biafra, Faithless, Leftfield, Gorillaz, Pixies, Gil Scott Heron, Stevie Wonder and many more who have refused to play for apartheid. If there is any doubt that the state uses artists’ performances in Israel as endorsement of its policies, this quotation from the Israeli foreign ministry where it stated that it “sees no difference between propaganda and culture”, should dispel that. Indeed, the official state twitter was boasting about your upcoming performance when it was announced. [7]

      Just this week the African National Congress (ANC) International Solidarity Conference voted to support the Palestinian-led campaign of boycott, divestment and sanctions against Israel, cementing the links between the two struggles against apartheid. [8]

      When a performer playing last week asked his Israeli interviewer if Palestinians could attend the concert, the response was: “We have to check.” Playing to a segregated audience is not worthy of you, Stanley Jordan, and would be a terrible disappointment to many of your fans.

      Every day the Palestinian people endure Israeli oppression with dignity and immense courage – all they are asking is that you do not cross their picket line. In solidarity with them, we are asking you to not to play for apartheid. Mr. Stanley Jordan, please cancel.

      Warmest Regards,
      Don’t Play Apartheid Israel
      We are a group of 950 members, representing many nations around the globe, who believe that it is essential for musicians and other artists to heed the call of the PACBI, and join in the boycott of Israel. This is essential in order to work towards justice for the Palestinian people under occupation, and also in refugee camps and in the diaspora throughout the world.
    • Fadwa Al Qasem There are many books I could recommend to you, but I’d rather you visit Gaza for a while. Or one of the 19 Palestinian refugee camps in Palestine (or Lebanon, or elsewhere), East Jerusalem, Ramallah .. meet some Palestinians in Palestine, sit under one of the many segregation/ separation walls, cross a check-point or two under gun point, and read the reality that Palestinians live with everyday – then make up your own mind.
    • Radi Annab If you perform in Israel, you will be supporting an apartheid, racist state. Only through boycott will it change.
    • Raymond Deane Stanley: as a musician and a Palestinian Rights activist I urge you not to lend yourself to the Israeli propaganda machine by participating in the Red Sea Jazz Festival. Music can indeed be a source of healing, but when the conditions under which it is disseminated are controlled by an oppressive state then it can itself – even contrary to the deepest intentions of its performers and creators – become an instrument of oppression and exclusion. The state of Israel knows how to use every tool at its disposal in order to whitewash its ongoing persecution of the Palestinian people – a persecution that is (de facto) supported by your government and mine – and uses those tools ruthlessly, because on a moral, ethical and legal basis it doesn’t have a leg to stand on. Your presence at the Red Sea Festival will serve to legitimise the regime that engages in this persecution and this whitewashing, and your best intentions – and I know that your intentions are pure – will be debased and instrumentalised. PLEASE listen to the call from the persecuted Palestinian people – PLEASE cancel your participation in the Red Sea Jazz Festival.
    • Roy H W Johnston Raymonf you have triggered an intense discussion, but could this perhaps be steered in the direction of the message of the Lerner book, which appears to be a factor in the situation?
    • Raymond Deane I don’t think I’ve triggered anything, Roy; I’ve been triggered by a discussion that had already started. Not having read Rabbi Lerner’s book, I can’t comment, although I’ve read a great many of his articles and essays. While I get the impression that he (and the Tikkun movement in general) has much of value to say about how people can reconcile once a measure of political justice has been established, I fail to see any useful recommendations as to how we can arrive at that condition. One thing musicians and other artists can do, however, is to avoid lending themselves to abuse by the Israeli state apparatus. The question of whether one should boycott other countries that also have a criminal record keeps rearing its head – the answer has to be twofold: have the oppressed in those countries ASKED for such a boycott (which is the case in Palestine), and does a boycott of those countries have the slightest chance of being effective? This is particularly relevant in the case of the cultural boycott – just how can you impose a cultural boycott on Syria, for example, or the DRC? It’s not feasible, because these regimes aren’t in a position to exploit culture for their ends. Israel is, and does. “Boycott is a tactic, not a principle” – Mandela.
    • Rima Najjar Stanley, I too am learning from this discussion, which you have so kindly started. When you asked the question, “Many of these places have policies and even laws that specifically target Jewish people. So shouldn’t I boycott them as well?” It was clear to me that this is the kind of red herring question that hasbara (Israeli propoganda) trots out every time their legion of proponents prceives a threat, like the call for cultural boycott. This forces everyone to go off on tangents. What I learned from posts by Gabriel Ash and Raymond Deane is the bottom line: The Cultural Boycott of Israel is a tactic that has a good chance of succeeding. We are not discussing abstract philosophical questions here.
    • Radi Annab Stanley, just some useful info for you: A few days ago, “With an overwhelming majority, the United Nations General Assembly voted for the Palestinian Right To Self Determination; the vote passed by 179 votes while only seven countries, including Israel and the United States, voted against, and three countries abstained. . . this vast majority vote is continued international support to the Palestinian rights, including the right to self-determination and liberation.”http://www.imemc.org/article/64779

      www.imemc.org

      With an overwhelming majority, the United Nations General Assembly voted for the “Palestinian Right To Self Determination”; the vote passed by 179 votes while only seven countries, including Israel and the United States, voted against, and three countries abstained. The IMEMC is a media collective….
    • Emily O’ Sullivan Stanley, first of all thanks for making a genuine effort here and taking time to engage before making your final decision. I understand that you would find it difficult to cancel after committing to playing the red sea festival but it has state funding and as pointed out by others here your participation would be manipulated regardless of your intentions. 

      Although the violations and breaches of human rights and international law go far beyond settlements, one does not have to look far to connect one of the sponsors of the event to settlements. Limor Livnat, the minister for culture, uses her role in a bid to legitimise and strengthen illegal settlements (http://www.timesofisrael.com/government-agrees-to-fund-jewish-museums-in-the-west-bank/). Settlement building is one of the more blatant manifestations of dispossession and ethnic cleansing of Palestinians by Israel.

      It is difficult to travel to the West Bank or Gaza without inadvertently reinforcing the borders and Israeli apparatus of apartheid – passing through Ben gurion one says ‘holy land’ instead of the West Bank and denies any connections with ‘arabs’ when quizzed by security staff in the airport. I am both familiar and uncomfortable with this and unfortunately in travelling to WB had to do so myself. Ironically, this is a luxury. However uncomfortable this may be for international and Israeli activists, most Palestinians are not even permitted to travel through Tel Aviv airport. Most of us opt to bite our tongues in these instances and weighing it up decide it’s worth it to play along. (Although there have been 2 ‘flytillas’ where people attempt to enter the west bank via Ben gurion with the stated aim of visiting Palestine. This has resulted in activists being arrested, turned back and prevented from boarding their flights in the first place). We are not asking you not to visit Israel but are asking you not to so in a way that publicly and prominently normalises what is happening. In playing at a state-sponsored event you would publicly be endorsing a system of apartheid, normalizing it and lending yourself 
      to the whitewashing of these injustices.

      www.timesofisrael.com

      Culture Minister Limor Livnat approves measure to give millions of shekels to institutions in settlements
    • Stanley Jordan OK, I’m back, and I’ve been reading through the messages here. And one thing I must say right off the bat: I’ve been particularly moved by the accounts from Palestinians on what you are coping with on a daily basis. And I just really want you to know, from the bottom of my heart, that I am listening. Thank you for your contribution and for your courage.
    • Zoë Lawlor Stanley, it looks like you are empathising with the Palestinian people, living as they do under apartheid and occupation. I hope you listen to your heart and take courage from the strength that the Palestinian people display every day. All they are asking from you is that you don’t cross the picket line – I hope you make this act of solidarity.
    • Stanley Jordan The main thesis of Michael Lerner’s book is that a change in consciousness is crucial. He says that the solution will require mutual generosity and compassion. Of course many may say that that will take a long time to happen. I hope you’re wrong, but you might be right. Either way, the point is, the solution will not be found until this change of consciousness occurs. One very positive thing I see in the BDS boycotts is that they shift the battleground from the military domain to the economic and cultural, which is certainly a more humane from of battle-but it’s still battle nonetheless. What resonates with my own heart is to step outside of the very frame that insists that some form of conflict is the only option. Some of you may feel that conflict is necessary–at least for now. But even if necessary, I’m sure that it’s not sufficient. That’s why I find this book to be right on. And he does offer specifics such as a call for a Global Marshall Plan, to be first implement in the Middle East.
    • Tom Pessah just to add to what people have said – Stanley, you now have an opportunity to do something deeply meaningful. Expressing sympathy is important but building real pressure to change oppressive behaviors could really make a difference. If you abstain from doing so you won’t make the lives of oppressed minorities elsewhere in the Middle East any better. Taking action in area X inevitably means not taking action in area Y but we have to start somewhere and starting here is important and valuable. There is no reason why palestinians should continue to suffer until all the other problems in the world are resolved. Things won’t change without significant pressure from the outside. Please listen to those who have been dealing with these issues for decades. We’ve had plenty of musicians visiting Israel with messages of peace, but the suffering continues.
    • Zoë Lawlor Stanley, I wouldn’t characterise the BDS movement as “conflict” but as resistance. The Palestinians are a militarily occupied people and, like any other people, they are resisting this in many ways and modes – mainly by existing. One of the most powerful tools that can actually shift the situation from one of apartheid to one of equality is the boycott. This will not happen at government level, it is through civil society and you now have the opportunity to be part of it. That creates real pressure for change and that’s what is needed.
    • Stanley Jordan http://www.amazon.com/Embracing-Israel-Palestine-Strategy-Transform/dp/1583943072

      www.amazon.com

      A major modern conundrum is how the Arab/Israel conflict remains unresolved and, seemingly, unresolvable. In this inspirational book, Rabbi Michael Lerner suggests that a change in consciousness is crucial. With clarity and honesty, he examines how the mutual demonization and discounting of …
    • Rima Najjar Stanley, you say, “What resonates with my own heart is to step outside of the very frame that insists that some form of conflict is the only option.” I embrace the vision of a bi-national state with both Jews and Palestinians living democratically and with dignity in historic Palestine. To reach that frame (in Lerner’s words: to embrace each community in a spirit of genuine caring), we need a principled and sustained campaign to impose a cost for Israeli government abuses of Palestinians. That’s because Israel holds ALL the cards (every single one and then some) at present.
    • Sylvia Posadas Stanley, I come from Australia, another settler colonial country where, like Israel, the Indigenous people have been genocided and are being genocided on an ongoing basis. On top of this, for many decades until it ended in the 70s, the Australian government had a policy called the ‘White Australia policy’ to conserve the ‘white majority’. Lerner’s position is similar. He is concerned that ‘Jewish Israel’ with a Jewish demographic majority be retained. This is a racist position, as was Australia’s immigration policy. Palestinians are entitled to their right of return under international law and Lerner proposes only some implementation of this fundamental right, lest the racist demographic balance be disturbed. How is this ‘mutually compassionate’? Racism is never compassionate. 

      Additionally, at present, according to Palestinian MK Haneen Zoabi, 43 Israeli laws discriminate against non-Jews within Israel, and Palestinians are subsequently second class citizens in their own homeland, a homeland where, she describes, even the relationship of Indigenous Palestinians with it is being alienated from them as history is duplicitously rewritten to suit the powerful party, turning Palestinians into invaders of their own homeland. In the Occupied Territories, Palestinians subsist in ever-diminishing enclaves as illegal Jews only settlements expand and military zones are declared by Israel on their lands. 

      The government of Israel has thumbed its nose at the international community and in the last few weeks has declared 5,500 new illegal Jews only homes will be constructed on Palestinian land. Yet the international community is supine. Netanyahu, the PM of Israel established his expansionist, oppressive goals a couple of years ago in a speech he gave at the Bar Ilan University which make Lerner’s ‘compromises’ hollow and politically unviable as a position to pursue. Outwardly, noises are made by the Israeli government that it is working toward ‘negotiating’ for peace and two states, as does Lerner push his version of 2 viable states, but in reality, Netanyahu’s stated plans which have real political backing are for the solidification of the existing discontiguous, non-sovereign bantustans in the Occupied Territories, where Palestinians will not have free right of movement to the outside world, as the borders will still be controlled by Israel. This outcome is patently an enhancement of the existing apartheid. 

      Yet, some Israeli politicians are not satisfied even with Netanyahu’s plan. They would prefer that all Palestinians are expelled from Israel and that the Occupied Territories be subsumed completely with further expulsions later on. In the light of these political realities, Lerner’s position is unrealistic and supports the status quo.

      Palestinians have called on people of conscience, as did the ANC when faced with bantustanisation and overwhelming racism, to make a stand with them in order to stop this hideous iniquity. I am appealing to your conscience and intelligence to stand with them and recognise that when a grassroots movement for liberation with consensus from the oppressed themselves has a global momentum because it is grounded in truth and justice, then together, we can win.
    • Evan McHugh McAwesome I vote BDS, with a slew of examples why listed above.
    • Rima Najjar What Sylvia Posadas says above is true, Stanley : Lerner’s position is unrealistic and supports the status quo.
      Here is an alternative vision that also sees both sides but from a Palestinian perspective: 

      http://www.amazon.com/One-Country-Proposal-Israeli-Palestinian-Impasse/dp/0805086668/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top

      www.amazon.com

      A “visionary”* approach to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict–one state for two peoples–that is more urgent than ever It is by now a commonplace that the only way to end the Israeli-Palestinian violence is to divide the territory in two. All efforts at resolving the conflict have come down t…
    • Tom Pessah ^^ it’s an alternative vision that sees both sides from the perspective of equal rights, without privileges
    • Rima Najjar Right: “Peace cannot require Palestinians to acquiece to the denial of what was done to them. Neither can it require israeli Jews to view their own presence in Palestine as illegitimate or to change their belief in their right to live there because of ancient and spiritual ties.”
    • Rima Najjar And the status quo in Israel, Stanley, is racist. Lerner says toward the end of his book something to the effect that as long as Palestinian Israelis can vote, it’s OK for them not to have equal rights (afterall they are better off than in other Arab countries), because to him, the Jewish privilige in Israel is paramount.

      http://www.amazon.com/Palestinians-Israel-Segregation-Discrimination-Democracy/dp/0745332285

      www.amazon.com

      Palestinians in Israel considers a key issue ignored by the official “peace process” and most mainstream commentators: that of the growing Palestinian minority within Israel itself. What the Israeli right-wing calls “the demographic problem,” Ben White identifies as “the democratic problem,” whic…
    • Emma Rosenthal Using artists to normalize Israeli aggression is not a form of consciousness raising, it normalized Israeli hegemony and brutality. There is no neutral way to participate in a state sponsored event. That even this non-violent action is seen as “too confrontational” means that Palestinians and supporters have no recourse, none what so ever.. Even those resistance movements based on spirit and consciousness, such as those lead by Gandhi and King, were highly confrontational, and indeed included boycotts. 

      It is very disheartening to see spirituality used as a pretext for perpetuating ongoing atrocities and used as an excuse to cross the picket line. We’ve seen this over and over again. No one has crossed the picket line to find that their actions made any change whatsoever. Lerner has no program, and he has no Palestinian base either. Spirituality and consciousness without action, without sacrifice, without behavior that supports the vision, is hollow, is narcotic. 

      A change in consciousness would mean an inability to support the current consciousness of brutality and oppression and the cynicism that would exploit art and music in its service. It would mean honoring the boycott. It might mean issuing a statement that expresses the desire for a change in consciousness, but it would indeed refuse to entertain brutality, refuse to sing for emperors and soldiers.
    • Samira Barghouthi So honestly Stanley Jordan, why did you want this discussion? Were you hoping for more support so you could continue the performance with a clear conscience? Discussion is good but it is discussions that lead to the never-ending story of the Palestinian suffering. YOU MUST FIND THE ANSWER WITHEN AND IN YOUR MOST INNER REALITY! Do what you think you would if you knew you only have a week to live.
    • Rima Najjar Speaking of sacrifice: We must remember that every right we enjoy has been wrestled from the hands of power at great personal cost by ordinary people like you and me.
      One example:
      The Palestinian detainee Samer Issawi after 137 days of hunger strike seen here in the Israeli occupation court 12/13/2002

      https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10151210308068422&set=pb.636428421.-2207520000.1355748394&type=3&theater

      Photo

      On the right: The Palestinian detainee Samer Issawi after 137 days of hunger strike in the Israeli occupation court 12/13/2002On the left: Issawi before being chewed up by the Israeli occupation court system. Read this review of THE DOCUMENTARY FILM “THE LAW IN THESE PARTS” about how the legal system Israel uses to rule the occupied Palestinian territories was put into place and how it has functioned over the 40-plus years of its existence. This may sound like a dry, legalistic endeavor, but the result will surprise you.http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/movies/moviesnow/la-et-mn-law-in-these-parts-review-20121214,0,5532140.storyBE INFORMED
      “UNLAWFUL COMBATANTS”:
      LEARN ABOUT ISRAEL’S SORRY EXCUSE FOR INDEFINITE DETENTION OF PALESTINIANS WITHOUT CHARGEThe Israeli occupation has detained Palestinians without charge or trial for years, and attempted to legitimize the practice with the adoption of the Internment of Unlawful Combatants Law in 2002, which was conceived to enable the Israeli state to circumvent a ruling of its Supreme Court in 2000, which ruled illegal the detention of Lebanese men held hostage for more than a decade.Just prior to Israel’s 2008/09 offensive on Gaza, more than 900 Palestinians from the Gaza Strip were detained in Israeli prisons, serving sentences for “security” offences and deprived of family visits. Such detentions have continued both in the Gaza Strip and increasingly in the West Bank, especially after the vote for Palestinian status in the UN.Israel’s actions are violations of international human rights law, most significantly, the Geneva Conventions and International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights, which state unequivocally that imprisonment without opportunity for appeal is a breach of the fundamental principles of justice.http://ufree-p.net/uploads/Excuse%20for%20Indefinite%20Detention%20without%20Charge%20.pdf
    • Drew Mcewan The boycott of Apartheid and the armed struggle of the South African people brought Apartheid to its knees. The boycott of Israeli goods and all cultural and sporting connections, will, with the continued resistance of Palestinians bring Zionism to its knees. There is no middle ground, no cretinous excuse of promoting dialogue through performing in that state. An act of performing in Israel is a cowardly crime against the Palestinian people.
    • Emma Rosenthal Yes, you must create the conditions that allow for a change in consciousness. Apartheid is the antithesis of compassion. It disallows it. You cannot step over bleeding bodies like they aren’t there, and call it, peace. You cannot pass to the head of a line because others are excluded, and call it peace. 

      Performing for empire does not bring a change of consciousness. Martin Luther King would call this the negative peace. Being part of a music festival in the middle of such a brazen violation of human rights would perpetuate the negative peace.
    • Gabriel Ash Stanely, one day a friend of a friend came to my house (by way of the common friend) for some afternoon tea. we talked about many things, and somehow the conversation came to politics and to Palestine. That man then said, if I can paraphrase, “when I think about people anywhere who suffer violence, I try to think good thought and to send them positive energy with my thinking.” Is that what you mean by “spirituality”?

      What we’re asking you is to take a stand and join an action in a way that will have a impact in the world. Because circumstances have that you are able to do something meaningful and more powerful than most people can. It’s your decision by definition, and you can ignore the request. You can decide that your career, your business relation, your convenience, etc., come first. In doing so you won’t be different than the vast majority of people. It’s quite normal to ignore suffering, oppression and violence and to do nothing about it. It won’t make you a worse person than the average. Well, maybe a tad worse. But pretty close to the average. 

      But please don’t call it “spirituality.” The spirits are turning in their graves.
    • Rima Najjar ” I must constantly respond to the Macedonian call for aid.” – Martin Luther King
    • Emma Rosenthalhttp://www.africa.upenn.edu/Articles_Gen/Letter_Birmingham.html

      “You may well ask: “Why direct action? Why sit ins, marches and so forth? Isn’t negotiation a better path?” You are quite right in calling for negotiation. Indeed, this is the very purpose of direct action. Nonviolent direct action seeks to create such a crisis and foster such a tension that a community which has constantly refused to negotiate is forced to confront the issue. It seeks so to dramatize the issue that it can no longer be ignored. My citing the creation of tension as part of the work of the nonviolent resister may sound rather shocking. But I must confess that I am not afraid of the word “tension.” I have earnestly opposed violent tension, but there is a type of constructive, nonviolent tension which is necessary for growth. Just as Socrates felt that it was necessary to create a tension in the mind so that individuals could rise from the bondage of myths and half truths to the unfettered realm of creative analysis and objective appraisal, so must we see the need for nonviolent gadflies to create the kind of tension in society that will help men rise from the dark depths of prejudice and racism to the majestic heights of understanding and brotherhood. The purpose of our direct action program is to create a situation so crisis packed that it will inevitably open the door to negotiation. I therefore concur with you in your call for negotiation. Too long has our beloved Southland been bogged down in a tragic effort to live in monologue rather than dialogue.”

      www.africa.upenn.edu

      ‎16 April 1963 My Dear Fellow Clergymen: While confined here in the Birmingham city jail, I came across your recent statement calling my present activities “unwise and untimely.” Seldom do I pause to answer criticism of my work and ideas. If I sought to answer all the criticisms that cross my desk, m…
    • Rima Najjar YES! ” I have earnestly opposed violent tension, but there is a type of constructive, nonviolent tension which is necessary for growth.” MLK
    • Sylvia Posadas At one of his addresses, Lerner claimed that there has to be a change in social consciousness in the way there had to be a change in consciousness about the patriarchy before feminism could succeed. However, beyond an analysis of the patriarchy, it is sexism that holds back women, and beyond an understanding of racist hegemony, it is racism which prevents Palestinians attaining their just rights. 

      Infused with respect for human rights, the Palestinian-led boycott logically and directly aims at ending this racism.
    • Stanley Jordan Sylvia, I’m not aware of Lerner advocating any racist policies and I’d be very surprised if he did. But please take note of his main point–that we all need to fundamentally change how we relate to one another. Will we live our lives from love, or from fear? I agree with his point that, until this spiritual change happens, there is no policy change that will fix the problem. That said, Rima, I have gotten the book by Ali Abunimah that you recommended, and I’ve already started reading it. It looks quite good. You say Lerner’s position is unrealistic. Have you read his book? Are you saying there isn’t one single realistic sentence in there? I just want to make sure we all keep our minds open, and so I will tend to question blanket statements. The solution will include nuances, and a more compassionate way of relating. Even Ali Abunimah begins his book with fond memories of a time when relations with Jewish people were warm. This is exactly the kind of thing Lerner is talking about.
    • Emma Rosenthal Thought alone does not bring about change, regardless of what new age spirituality asserts. It is with action that we bring our vision into reality, and in the context of social justice: joint action.
    • Rima Najjar Kapitan Taking a stand for justice and against Israeli apartheid would be especially powerful at a time when Israel just conducted a brutal siege on Gaza’s civilian population, and just announced plans to expand settlements on occupied Palestinian land. Palestinians and human rights activists all over the world are watching. Join other principled performers who have refused to cross the picket line!
    • Emma Rosenthal It’s important, Stanley, to look at the details of the proposal. Lerner advocates a two state solution, where Israel remains an essentially Jewish state, with protected rights for that Jewish majority. When ever a state must make borders to assure one group maintain a majority, the demographic efforts and controls result in extremely racist policies. 

      Besides, there is no viable 2 state solution. The facts on the ground have assured a continuing 1 state solution– but it’s an repressive, apartheid state. the 2 state solution has never really been a sincere proposal, as limited as it is. At this point in time it’s just a distraction to any real discussion. If a viable 2 state solution were even a remote possibility, Israel could have created that, unilaterally. Even in the midst of Oslo, Israel never stopped settlement expansion. It never intended to cede an inch of the best land.
    • Rima Najjar Stanley Jordan, you ask me: “You say Lerner’s position is unrealistic. Have you read his book? Are you saying there isn’t one single realistic sentence in there?” I have been reading Lerner’s book (at your recommendation) from the Amazon (open the book) site. I haven’t come across any concrete strategies like the one Abunimah suggests. In fact, when he is asked about a bi-national state, his answer clearly indicates that he is not for it. Can you point me to a realistic (and by that I mean concrete) strategy that Lerner suggests that would NOT be advanced by a principled and sustained campaign to impose a cost for Israeli government abuses of Palestinians?
    • Emma Rosenthal Any Zionist vision of a 2 state solution has always assured the continued Israeli control over Palestinian land. 

      Eqbal Ahmed confronted a group of students I was part of, back in the day, during the beginning of the boycott of South Africa. He pointed out that our concern was rooted in similarities, not differences between South AFrica and the U.S. 

      Apartheid is based on 2 U.S. systems of oppression– 1. Native American reservations, and 2. Jim Crow. One system quarantines and separates an oppressed population, even participates in its genocide. the other deals with issues of convergence, where the 2 groups- dominant and oppressed, come into contact, assuring the dominance of the dominant group., and the exploitation of the labor of the oppressed group. 

      Even if the solution for the territories occupied since 1967 could be resolved with a 2 state solution, the rights of Palestinians in a rigidly maintained Jewish majority state would be significantly curtailed. 

      The only just solution is a one state solution, based on equal civil and human rights for all, and since a 1 state reality already exists, talking 2 states is a negative and illusory assertion with no basis in spirituality nor materialism. 

      Lerner tries valiantly to make Zionism, just, and perhaps, for that he should be commended, but it is an essentially settler colonialist narrative that disregards the rights, the mere existence of another people. It cannot be done.
    • Emma Rosenthal Rima, it’s also important to point out that Lerner has no base of support among Palestinians, who see his proposal for what it is, not for what it appears to be.
    • Rima Najjar Israel as a Jewish state balks at the right of return for Palestinian refugees. Why? Because a Jewish Israel has been created as a result of the expulsion of Palestinians from Israel.
    • Emma Rosenthal Yes I left that out. Lerner’s proposal does not even begin to address the issue of refugee right of returns. I have that “right” as a diaspora Jew, but Palestinians who still have the keys to their homes and the deeds to their land, cannont return. Where is that justice?
    • Varda Epstein Peace can only come through communication. What better way to communicate than through music? Israel is ready to discuss peace at any time, with no preconditions. We are open to peace. I think that by playing in our country, you show you are open to communication and peace, because you are willing to communicate your art to those of us who are willing to listen!
    • Sylvia Posadas Stanley, here is Lerner: ‘We at Tikkun have suggested that Israel take in twenty to thirty thousand refugees each year for the next thirty years, because at the expectable growth rate of populations that number would not undermine the demographic balance and yet would appear to be a rather significant act of atonement.’

      What Lerner proposes, as I referred to above in my comparison of his stance with the White Australia policy, is a racist solution to ensure a continued racist Jewish demographic majority. He is opposed to the removal of racist privilege for Jews in Israel. 

      Thus, as I’ve previously said, he is guaranteeing the status quo, because without equal rights for all, and real human and political rights for disenfranchised Palestinians in the Occupied Territories over whom Israel governs and will continue to govern in a de facto sense with Netanyahu’s plan, the status quo will indeed continue – more expansionism, more brutality, more oppression, and more apartheid. http://mondoweiss.net/2012/05/peter-beinarts-cognitive-dissonance-on-threats-to-israels-demographics.html

      mondoweiss.net

      Michael Lerner and Peter Beinart seek to preserve Israel’s Jewish majority from the right of return
    • Emma Rosenthal The festival is being held in Eliat– the Sun City of Israel. Do you really want to be a part of that?

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0F-XDxC-DdE

      www.youtube.com

      lol Its the first snow in Connecticut. And in Eilat we go to the Beach.
    • Rima Najjar Thank you, Sylvia Posadas, for explaining it so concisely and so well.
    • Emma Rosenthal http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aopKk56jM-I

      www.youtube.com

      Not long after Band Aid and We Are The World focused musical attention on poverty and famine, a collection of artists took a similar approach in the struggle…
    • Emma Rosenthal Then and now ^
    • Gabriel Ash Stanley Jordan: Lerner is problematic for a lot of reasons mentioned by others, but I’ll give him credit for being a kind of gateway drug. A lot of people started to think about Palestine with Lerner and then moved beyond him. But to talk about what is the right policy misses the point. We’re not crafting policies. We talk precisely about how to relate to each other. It’s true, no government can “solve” this problem. It’s the role of people to bring change by changing they way they act and relate to others. But what does that mean in practice? It seems to me where Lerner fails is precisely in drawing the conclusion. To stop acting from fear is to stop accepting the normalcy and violence and oppression, because it is fear, fear of loss, fear of consequences, fear of ridicule, fear of punishment and, fear of deprivation that make all of us accept the way things are. To stop acting from fear is precisely what people are doing when they demand and insist on that oppression has to stop.
    • Rima Najjar And on the Palestinian side, we need to stop acting from outrage. For us to be able to do that, the oppression has to stop.
    • Andy Griggs It seems odd to hear people advocating dialogue while perpetuating the status quo through the 4th largest military in the world, with the support of the first largest military in the world. If boycott is wrong, then surely Israeli military might is wrong. If the goal is conversation, than at the very least, people need to be able to converse, which can’t be done with checkpoints, aparthied walls, exjudicial executions, administrative detention without due process, and military attacks on civilian populations. 
      The call for conversation and music in this context assumes the normalcy of Israeli brutality and apartheid infrastructure, while denouncing any positive efforts for change on the part of Palestinians.
    • Rima Najjar https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10151214642918422&set=a.10150255827008422.340489.636428421&type=3&theater

      Photo

      DEAD END! Where civilians, and especially children, are certain to become “collateral damage.”Israel blockades the Gaza Strip by land, air and sea. Many of the inhabitants of the Gaza Strip are a few miles away from the land of their ethnically cleansed former villages, across the border wall in southern Israel.”Framing events in Gaza in the colonial context is vital for understanding the nature of the violence, as well as the separation and sealing off of the territory, a microcosm of fragmented Palestine. The colonial paradigm brings the focus back to the Nakba, to the foundational act of ethnic cleansing and ongoing policies of exclusion. It is a reminder that the answers for Gaza are the same as those for Jerusalem, the southern Hebron Hills and the Galilee: decolonisation, implementation of the Palestinian people’s rights – and international sanction of Israel until such a goal is realised.” – Ben Whitehttp://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/opinion/2012/12/20121216124912496638.htmlArtist: Artist Mahmoud Alarawi
      https://www.facebook.com/alarawiArtGaza: One of the most-densely populated places in the world and characterized by extreme poverty and ongoing conflict, Gaza is a difficult place for children to grow up. The recent eight-day conflict in Gaza and southern Israel weighed particularly heavily on children, with hundreds of homes destroyed and evidence of psychological trauma in many of the 225,000 children attending UNRWA schools in the Strip. – The Palestine Chronicle
    • Rima Najjar https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10151174984088422&set=a.10150255827008422.340489.636428421&type=3&theater

      Photo

      WHAT PRICE ASHKELON of the “sparkling white beaches matched by white-faced apartment buildings, green lawns and several wide boulevards”?The man in this photo looks so much like my grandfather Ali Ismaeel al Najjar of Lifta. The man and the tents are there to illustrate an article on the expulsion of Palestinians from al Majdal Asqalan, 20 km north of the Gaza border, which is now the Israeli city of Ashkelon that you hear mentioned in connection with Hamas rockets.The 11,000 Palestinian inhabitants of al Majdal Asqalan (known for their weaving industry) were expelled by Israel 1948-’50 and trucked to Gaza, where they have remained to this day as refugees, denied the right of return. Some were first kept in a fenced-off ghetto.The years of internment in refugee camps from 1950 until the present have been years of “brutal occupation, constant strife, military raids in their neighborhoods, destruction of facilities, denial of everyday life, denial of livelihood, denial of access to the sea, denial of access to the outside world.”http://www.palestinechronicle.com/view_article_details.php?id=15274
    • Karen MacRae Stanley, in 1987 a Sun City documentary was made by your principled and concerned peers as a united condemnation of those who believe races and cultures should keep their respective places, you asked a very thought provoking question: “Why isn’t it happening more often?” Indeed. It’s a very good question. It’s an even better question now. How will you answer?
    • Rima Najjar https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10150632416148422&set=a.10150255827008422.340489.636428421&type=3&theater

      Photo

      My aunts on my father’s side Samira and Nawal Najjar and their grandmother (mother of Ali Ismail Mahmoud Khalil al Najjar, my grandfather) in Lifta, Palestine in 1947 with a Jewish neighbor/playmate (Miriam). [SADLY, HERE IS HOW FB DESCRIBES THE RUINS OF LIFTA today: LIFTA, YERUSHALAYIM, ISRAEL – seeEthnic Cleansing 101: The Case of Lifta Village:
      http://electronicintifada.net/content/ethnic-cleansing-101-case-lifta-village/5493Photos: http://www.liftasociety.org/media/photos
    • Rima Najjar Andy Griggs, to add to what you are saying, here is a litany written by Amira Hass on Dec 24, 2012 in Haaretz: Apropos apathy, allow me to provide last week’s headlines that never were, or were buried immediately, regarding the nine attacks on Palestinians by settlers: seven injured, three torched cars and graffiti slogans in Hebrew. Also, 200 olive trees were uprooted, bringing the total number uprooted or damaged by invisible hands since January to 8,200, not including the 450 removed by Israeli authorities from Nahalin under the excuse that they were on state land.

      Also, not including arrests, dispersals of demonstrations, injured demonstrators, 313,000 people in 113 communities who have no access to water because of Israeli construction injunctions, the demolition of the Beit Nuba school and other demolition orders, the Israel Defense Forces’ shooting of a fisherman and confiscation of his boat in Gaza, and firing on people who make their living collecting scrap metal 500 meters from the wall that surrounds the Gaza Strip, two people were injured.
    • Stanley Jordan The critiques of Lerner’s book are very helpful, and it will take me some time to go through them before I can respond intelligently. But let me just say, that I’m not stuck on any one particular author or proposal to fix this problem. The main reason the Lerner book impressed me, and why I wanted to use it to kick off this discussion, is because it addresses what I broadly call the “spiritual” element–which includes how we relate to each other, how we communicate, how we fundamentally view our lives and our world, our self-image (for example, do I see myself as a victim or a victor), our emotional state (do i operate from love or from fear), this list could go on and on. You can also think of this as the subjective world (as opposed to the objective world) or Ken Wilber’s “Left Hand Path”. Some folks have argued here that the problem cannot be solved in that domain, and you are right in the sense that that domain by itself is not sufficient. But I still think it is a necessary part of an overall approach. Consider this: Look at all the temples, churches, mosques and synagogues in the world. The very presence of these places shows that people do believe the spiritual approach in life is somehow effective. Count me as a believer too, and when we all see that our own religions already have within their sacred texts all the instructions we need to get along beautifully, and we only need to apply our own teachings, this solution could come faster than you think.
    • Tom Pessah Stanley, do you see the idea of boycotting as opposed to spirituality? wasn’t there something very spiritual about Rosa Parks and the montgomery bus boycott, when people offered each other support for months until their rights were recognized? a lot of the civil rights movement was inspired by clergymen and organized in churches, and boycotts of discriminating institutions were a key part of that.
    • Emma Rosenthal You might want to check out the works of Gandhi, King (beyond the I have a Dream, speech), and also the writings re Liberation Theology. In Palestine, look to the works of Naim Ateek and Sabeel.
    • Emma Rosenthal Here is the initial call for BDS. You can see that there are religious groups that contribute to and support this call, which represents the broadest sector of Palestinian society. 

      http://www.bdsmovement.net/call

      www.bdsmovement.net

      Palestinian Civil SocietyCalls for Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions against Israel Until it Complies with International Law and Universal Principles of Human Rights
    • Tom Pessah “4.2.6 Palestinian civil organizations, as well as international organizations, NGOs and certain religious institutions call on individuals, companies and states to engage in divestment and in an economic and commercial boycott of everything produced by the occupation. We understand this to integrate the logic of peaceful resistance. These advocacy campaigns must be carried out with courage, openly sincerely proclaiming that their object is not revenge but rather to put an end to the existing evil, liberating both the perpetrators and the victims of injustice. The aim is to free both peoples from extremist positions of the different Israeli governments, bringing both to justice and reconciliation. In this spirit and with this dedication we will eventually reach the longed-for resolution to our problems, as indeed happened in South Africa and with many other liberation movements in the world. 

      4.3 Through our love, we will overcome injustices and establish foundations for a new society both for us and for our opponent”

      http://www.fosna.org/content/kairos-palestine-document-full-text

      www.fosna.org

        Bethlehem, December 11, 2009IntroductionThe KAIROS Palestine DocumentWe, a group of Christian Palestinians, after prayer, reflection and an exchange of opinion, cry out from within the suffering in our country, under the Israeli
    • Gabriel Ash Stanley Jordan: the temples, mosques, and churches have been around for three thousand years, so it is not a statement of disbelief to say that having written instructions in itself does not solve much. If it did, we wouldn’t be having this conversation, would we? Interestingly enough, the very core of the ideas that make those instructions is that the existence of churches and mosques and temples doesn’t matter, only our actions matter. 

      Here is the Prophet Amos on that question of boycott, specifically, God boycotting the music of his worshipers: 

      Even though you bring me burnt offerings and grain offerings, I will not accept them. Though you bring choice fellowship offerings, I will have no regard for them. Away with the noise of your songs! I will not listen to the music of your harps. But let justice roll on like a river, righteousness like a never-failing stream!
      Amos 5:22-24

      And here is the same sentiment from the Christian theologian Dietrich Bonhoeffer:

      cheap grace is the preaching of forgiveness without requiring repentance, baptism without church discipline. Communion without confession. Cheap grace is grace without discipleship, grace without the cross, grace without Jesus Christ.

      I don’t know enough about Islam but I’d be surprised if the same idea was not part of it.
    • Elise Hendrick Martin Luther King, Jr certainly had no problem boycotting a racist regime, and I don’t think anyone can seriously accuse him of having lacked spirituality.
    • Stanley Jordan Samira, you ask why did I want this discussion? Fair question, and I’ll address it now. The reason is because, for the first time in my life, I’ve been asked to cancel a gig for political reasons. I’m not a politician–I’m a musician. I do gigs for a living–that’s what I do. I take my life’s work very seriously and I’m being asked to cancel it based on something that I know very little about, and a subject–can we all agree here?–that is riddled with misinformation. Clearly due diligence is required. So I started this discussion so people could give me a crash course in the situation–and I’m trying my best to keep up. My other motivation was to provide a respectful space where people can air their views. I saw they were doing it anyway, so it seemed there was a need. I know I have a lot to learn, Thanks for your patience.
    • Karen MacRae Martin Luther King Jr, in fact gave the Montgomery boycott a significance it would otherwise not even had due to spirituality. He almost broke down after criticisms from white officials that he was an obstacle to resolving the segregation policies at the time. He describes an experience of the Divine after praying that renewed his spirits and deepened his understanding of his life and the Montgomery struggle. It was around that time he committed himself to Gandhian principles that converged with his Christianity which he didn’t waver from. The Montgomery boycott birthed, as we know, a new era for African American’s tumultuous path to justice and equality.
    • Elise Hendrick “The reason is because, for the first time in my life, I’ve been asked to cancel a gig for political reasons”

      Wouldn’t it be the second time? My understanding is that you took a very clear stand on not playing Sun City.
    • Elise Hendrick It is definitely true that there is a very well-oiled noise machine dedicated to distracting from the actual issues facing the Palestinians and those who wish to be in solidarity with them, though this was also true in the case of apartheid in South Africa, where the regime engaged in diligent efforts to declare itself the only democracy in its region, an outpost of liberality and civilisation in a backward continent, a country that provided an otherwise unavailable living standard for the indigenous population, a country doing its best to achieve peace in the face of a “terrorist threat”…in the end, roughly the same crap Israel and its apologists dump into the discourse by the lorryload today.
    • Stanley Jordan Elise, I was never booked at Sun City to begin with. Not playing a gig and canceling a gig are two very different things.
    • Karen MacRae It’s also interesting to note that the specious opposition to BDS against Israel mirrors the specious opposition to BDS against South Africa. Themes, now turned cliches, such as ‘BDS is counterproductive” and “Hurting the population” have been deployed and designed to deflect from the apartheid analogy in order to excuse Israel’s horrendous treatment of the Palestinians. Other examples of this theme are “South Africa wants peace and good relations with it’s neighbours” “Singling out South Africa” “South Africa lives in a tough neighbourhood; South Africa is an asset to the West.” Sound familiar? These themes didn’t make the case for South African apartheid and they will not solidify the case for Israeli apartheid either.
    • Karen MacRae Stanley, if you were asked not to play Sun City, would you have cancelled your gig? If you say yes as I think you would have judging by the comments you’ve been quoted as making at the time, then it seems safe to assume you would cancel the gig you’ve been asked to play in Israel which is effectively the same scenario.
    • Elise Hendrick “Stanley Jordan Elise, I was never booked at Sun City to begin with. Not playing a gig and canceling a gig are two very different things.”

      My mistake. However, the fact remains that you made a very clear, public, and political statement on the subject of playing Sun City.
    • Stanley Jordan Yes, I was involved in United Artists Against Apartheid–The Sun City Project. I have also done benefits for Amnesty International, The Daniel Pearl Foundation, and Jazz for Obama, among other things. I have supported principled causes through my music. but what I have not done in any of those situations was compromise my principles by canceling a gig. Another thing: The relationship between Israel and South Africa has come up repeatedly here. I have to sign off for today, but I will return tomorrow and we can talk more about that then. Thanks everyone!
    • Cindy Peck Pereira Stanley, I’m going to make an understatement here, but this is a complicated issue. Unfortunately what you do now will be interpreted by some as taking sides. You are doing all you can to become informed about the history of the conflict. You have a personal value system that ultimately will help you make a decision about performing. I pray for you a calm spirit and peace to fill your heart.
    • Zoë Lawlor Stanley, if you were involved in AAA then I cannot understand why you don’t see that the situation is the same or worse now for the Palestinians. Apartheid was wrong as practised by South Africa and is wrong as practised by Israel. This could go on all night but ultimately you have to takre responsibility as an informed, thinking person and either decide to play for apartheid or decide to stand in solidarity with the Palestinian people. That’s conscience. Do it, please.
    • Karen MacRae “I have supported principled causes through my music. but what I have not done in any of those situations was compromise my principles by canceling a gig” What? I don’t understand this statement. Are you saying if you had accepted a gig at Sun City, you would have played Sun City because if you cancelled the gig it would have compromised your principles? Even knowing the situation?
    • Steven Young Stanley, you are an Artist with a deep social and political awareness and activism. I’ve seen it in person here in Sedona. Do what your Heart tells you to do. Please don’t bow to the pressure of others with their own agendas (either way). You can’t please or displease everybody all the time. If you decide to participate, perhaps in your own way, you can make a very powerful statement towards the goal of peace, human rights and the like through your music. A ripple here and a ripple there can start to stir waves of change…
    • Jane Cutter Please don’t go. Please respect the boycott. Listen and learn from the Palestinians about the apartheid conditions they face and act in accordance with their request for a cultural boycott. the cultural boycott of South Africa made a difference and helped end apartheid there–your respect for the boycott can make a difference today.
    • Jay Kilby My advise is pretty simple from our similar childhoods my friend. Music is the universal language. It captivates us all and for one brief moment, it gives us a way to forget what is around us and dwell together in its peace.
    • Rod Such I’m familiar with Rabbi Lerner’s opposition to the Palestinians’ call for BDS, and I find his argument unpersuasive and decidely unspiritual. Lerner argues that this is a conflict between two traumatized people–Israeli Jews because of the Holocaust and Palestinian Arabs because of the Nakba, that is Israel’s forced expulsion of nearly 1 million Palestinians–and therefore, boycott will only add to the trauma and will not convince Israeli Jews to stop oppressing Palestinians. His argument doesn’t convince for two reasons. First, you could easily say that white Afrikaners were also a traumatized people because of what they endured during the Boer War when the British not only massacred them but also placed them in the world’s first concentration camps. But no one made this argument during the boycott of South Africa because it would have been laughable. White South Africans were immeasurably privileged and powerful and directly oppressed black and colored South Africans, much like the oppresion Israeli Jews now exercise over PLestinians, both within Israelwh
    • Rod Such Within Israel, where Palestinians make up 20 percent of the population and face 26 provisions in Israel’s basic laws that discriminate against non-Jews, and in the Occupied Territories, where Palestinians live under authoritarian military rule. Even so, BDS is not directed against the Israeli people but against the Israeli state, which maintains this system of oppression and privilege. Many Israelis are now beginning to support BDS through the Boycott from Within. Please don’tundermine them. Support the call for BDS issued by Palestinian civil society and supported by the African National Congress, Archbishop Desmond Tutu, the late Gil Scott-Heron, and African-American intellectuals like Angela Davis and Bill Fletcher, not to mention IsraeliJews likeJeffHalper, Dalit Baum, EitanBronstein, and others who are seeking a kind of spiritual redemption for Israel to reverse course. No nation and no people can be free as long as they oppress another nationoranother people.
    • Elise Hendrick Stanley: “but what I have not done in any of those situations was compromise my principles by canceling a gig.”

      I’m not sure I understand what you mean by this. If you still adhere to the principles that led you to speak out against playing Sun City, then it would be compromising your principles NOT to cancel this gig. 

      “Another thing: The relationship between Israel and South Africa has come up repeatedly here.”

      In this context, there are two things that are worth remembering:

      1. Apartheid is a crime recognised by international law with defined elements. As such, speaking of apartheid in Israel/Palestine does not require any analogy to be drawn between Israel and apartheid South Africa; it merely requires those elements – which essentially amount to the existence and maintenance of a system that determines first- and second-class citizenship based on race or ethnicity – to be present. In the case of Israel, it would be absurd to deny that they are, given the numerous outright racially discriminatory laws in the areas of housing, citizenship, education, health care, marriage, and urban planning, not to mention the state and quasi-state agencies that exist (Jewish Agency, etc.) with the express purpose of keeping the line between first- and second-class citizens intact.

      2. A number of leading South African voices from the struggle against apartheid in that country have stated, based on their experiences, that not only is the racist regime in Israel/Palestine LIKE what they suffered under South African apartheid, but that it is even worse.
    • Rima Najjar Gabriel Ash: You say, “I don’t know enough about Islam but I’d be surprised if the same idea was not part of it.” You are right: “The place of faith is the heart and the intellect. In matters of intellect and heart, not only can a person deceive others but also at times he himself can remain in deception. He considers himself to be a mu’min (believer) whereas actually he is not. For this reason, two testimonies needed to be required for it: a person’s words and a person’s deeds. Since words can be untrue, hence a person who only professes faith through words is not regarded as a mu’min and it was deemed essential that a person’s deeds also testify to his faith. Thus the Qur’ān said: O you who believe with the tongue! Believe through your deeds.” – Farāhī, Majmū‘ah Tafāsīr, 2nd ed. (Faran Foundation, 1998), 349.
    • Rima Najjar Stanley Jordan: You say to Samira Barghouthi, “I started this discussion so people could give me a crash course in the situation–and I’m trying my best to keep up.” I respect you with all my heart for doing this. You have provided here a space for people to exchange ideas and to try their best to steer away from the misinformation rampant around us. You are learning from everybody here about something that you really have no need to bother with except for being a good human being and for having the power that comes with your musical talent to make a little difference in this case. I myself have learned a lot from the smart and dedicated people writing on your page and thank you, also, for that.
    • Rima Najjar Stanley, you say, “what I have not done in any of those situations was compromise my principles by canceling a gig.” 
      What you have here are two competing values – the value of keeping your word in a business contract and the value of assisting many who are suffering under oppression. Your decision will rest on what you choose to value more in your life.
    • Emma Rosenthal If you determine that Israeli apartheid is wrong, that BDS is a legitimate and non-violent protest of that wrong, you are in a unique position. Actually, canceling your gig makes a stronger public statement than not accepting the gig. So it affords you the opportunity to do even more within your principles than had you known of the boycott in advance and had simply turned down the offer.
    • Rima Najjar Stanley, you say you are interested in talking about the South Africa analogy. Chapter Five in Ali Abunimah’s book is titled “Learning from South Africa” (page 134). At the beginning of the chapter, he writes, ” Drawing parallels between Israel-Palestine and apartheid South Africa makes some people very uncomfortable …. But my purpose here is not to argue that Israel is or is not as bad as apartheid South Africa …. but to consider a recent experience where people with fundamentally incompatible views of history …. could emerge in peaceful reconciliation.”
    • Rima Najjar https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10151229662333422&set=a.10150255827008422.340489.636428421&type=1&theater

      Photo

      SAVE SAMER!‘Save Samer, he is dying’: Samer Issawi and the plight of Palestinian hunger strikers
      by Malaka Mohammed on December 26, 2012″Today, Wednesday the 26th, I woke up thinking of the last episode in Samer’s story; of his heart; of his mother; and of an innocent family. He has been charged with spurious charges and denied a fair trial in the Israeli military courts. Now, he has been on hunger strike for 152 days, deprived of his freedom and proper medical care.”Photo: Samer’s father Tariq, and sister Shireen, holding a photo of Samer in the family’s East Jerusalem home (Photo: Ryan Rodrick Beiler/ Alternative Information Center)http://mondoweiss.net/2012/12/issawi-palestinian-strikers.html
    • Radi Annab Stanley, regarding the South African analogy, please see below recent article. In a historic decision, South Africa’s ANC has made support for Israel boycott its official policy.
      “The ANC is unequivocal in its support for the Palestinian people in their struggle for self-determination, and unapologetic in its view that the Palestinians are the victims and the oppressed in the conflict with Israel. “http://electronicintifada.net/blogs/ali-abunimah/historic-decision-south-africas-anc-makes-support-israel-boycott-its-official

      electronicintifada.net

      The vote by the ANC’s National Conference is by far the most authoritative endorsement of the Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions (BDS) against Israel campaign.
    • Rima Najjar Stanley, thought you might appreciate this:https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10151201598558422&set=a.10150255827008422.340489.636428421&type=1&theater

      Photo

      FROM A STONE-THROWING INTIFADA TO A “MUSICAL INTIFADA”ON THE 25th ANNIVERSARY OF THE FIRST INTIFADA, THE PALESTINIAN CHILDREN WHO PARTICIPATED IN IT ARE ALL GROWN UP – BUT THE INJUSTICE, FRUSTRATION AND RAGE REMAINIn 1988, a photographer in the West Bank snapped a photo of a scrawny 8-year-old with tears in his eyes, hurling a rock at an Israeli soldier. The photograph symbolized the rage and frustration of the intifada. More than 20 years later, that boy, Ramzi Hussein Aburedwan, has grown up to become a visionary musician, the founder of the Ramallah-based Al Kamandjati (The Violinist, in Arabic) and the force behindOperation Mozart
      June 24, 2011Children and their “musical intifada” prevail at Qalandiahttp://ramallahcafe.com/?p=414Listen to Ramzi’s story on NPR here:
      http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=128385513
    • Rima Najjar https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10151196168378422&set=a.10150255827008422.340489.636428421&type=1&theater

      Photo

      SEE THIS INFOGRAPHIC (DIVIDE and CONQUER) IN GREATER RESOLUTION HERE:http://972mag.com/visualizing-occupation-divide-and-conquer/51479/Sources:
      Palestinians living within 1948 borders of Israel
      Demography of the West Bank
      UNRWA statistics on refugees
      B’Tselem: Fishing restrictions in Gaza StripMichal Vexler is a designer and an activist. This work – a part of a series of infographics regarding the effect of the occupation on the Palestinian civilian population – is presented here with her permission.
    • Rima Najjar And about your struggle, Stanley, with what you see as a conflict re: breaking your contract, you could look at it in this way: You made the contract in good faith – before you had knowledge about who was sponsoring the event and how such events and the international performers who are recruited help “brand” Israel as normal, when in fact it is perpetrating a gross injustice and oppression against the Palestinian people in so many ways, it is difficult even to count. That faith is now broken.
    • Radi Annab … and to add to Rima Najjar, the Israeli government has had no qualms in violating international law and several UN Security Council resolutions, year in, year out. Unforrtunatley, the U.S. vetos every UN vote that does not favor this atrocious apartheid racist state of Israel.
    • Emma Rosenthal The chart Rima provides doesn’t quite cover the incredible discrimination against Palestinians inside the 1967 borders, where there re several laws that distinguish them from Jewish Israeli citizens, not least of which, marriage laws, which allow Jewish Israelis to marry non-israelis, who then can get legal residential status. Palestinian Israelis who marry Palestinians from other regions (see the other categories on that chart), cannot bring their partners into (pre 67) Israel. 

      There are several unrecognized villages in Israel, Palestinian villages, where refugees settled after the nakba. These villages have no public services– water, electricity, education, etc. They exist within the 1967 borders. 

      Palestinian Israelis continue to experience extreme discrimination in housing, education and jobs.
    • Emma Rosenthal http://www.amazon.com/Palestinians-Israel-Segregation-Discrimination-Democracy/dp/0745332285

      www.amazon.com

      Palestinians in Israel considers a key issue ignored by the official “peace process” and most mainstream commentators: that of the growing Palestinian minority within Israel itself. What the Israeli right-wing calls “the demographic problem,” Ben White identifies as “the democratic problem,” whic…
    • Rima Najjar Thanks for the HRW link, Emma Rosenthal; I hadn’t seen it before.
    • Gail Nelson I think that one does not have to support ALL aspects of the boycott, in order to cancel plans in Israel. Earlier this year, the noted French philosopher Jacques Rancière canceled his plans to appear in Israel, stating: “I am personally opposed to collective punishment against all citizens of a State and in respect of its researchers, without taking into account their own attitude to the policy of this State. So I do not respect or violate a decision that I have not personally signed. But it appears that, in the present situation, the content of what I could say in response to the invitation that was sent to me has become completely secondary to this simple alternative, and it is not today for reasons of fatigue, my ability to satisfactorily meet the dual demands of the situation thus created.” http://thesip.org/2012/01/ranciere-cancellatio/
    • Tom Pessah “The Report finds that Israeli practices in the OPT exhibit the same three ‘pillars’ of apartheid:

      The first pillar “derives from Israeli laws and policies that establish Jewish identity for purposes of law and afford a preferential legal status and material benefits to Jews over non-Jews”.

      The second pillar is reflected in “Israel’s ‘grand’ policy to fragment the OPT [and] ensure that Palestinians remain confined to the reserves designated for them while Israeli Jews are prohibited from entering those reserves but enjoy freedom of movement throughout the rest of the Palestinian territory. This policy is evidenced by Israel’s extensive appropriation of Palestinian land, which continues to shrink the territorial space available to Palestinians; the hermetic closure and isolation of the Gaza Strip from the rest of the OPT; the deliberate severing of East Jerusalem from the rest of the West Bank; and the appropriation and construction policies serving to carve up the West Bank into an intricate and well-serviced network of connected settlements for Jewish-Israelis and an archipelago of besieged and non-contiguous enclaves for Palestinians”.

      The third pillar is “Israel’s invocation of ‘security’ to validate sweeping restrictions on Palestinian freedom of opinion, expression, assembly, association and movement [to] mask a true underlying intent to suppress dissent to its system of domination and thereby maintain control over Palestinians as a group.”

      http://www.hsrc.ac.za/Media_Release-378.phtml

      www.hsrc.ac.za

      The Human Sciences Research Council of South Africa (HSRC) has released a study indicating that Israel is practicing both colonialism and apartheid in the Occupied Palestinian Territories (OPT). The s
    • Lauren M. Tozzi Please do not perform in Israel. Perform in the West Bank…or Gaza!
    • Emma Rosenthal “One lives in hope that music is more than mere noise, filling up idle time, whether intending to elate or lament. 

      Then there are occasions when merely having your name added to a concert schedule may be interpreted as a political act that resonates more than anything that might be sung and it may be assumed that one has no mind for the suffering of the innocent. ” -Elvis Costello, on canceling his scheduled performance in Israel.

      http://www.elviscostello.com/news/it-is-after-considerable-contemplation/44

    • Emma Rosenthal http://boycottisrael.info/content/thank-you-letter-gil-scott-heron-over-50-organizations

      boycottisrael.info

      By announcing the cancellation of your scheduled performance in Israel, you join the growing ranks of artists of conscience in solidarity with Palestinian civil society. As you recognized in your iconic anti-Apartheid anthem “Johannesburg,” when “brothers over there are defyin’ the man…they need to …
    • Emma Rosenthal You have been asked by thugs and murders to support their regime, to assist them in creating a negative peace– the illusion of peace on a foundation of abuses and oppression. There is no honor in honoring any agreement you made with them. They and their mission are not honorable. Their appropriation of you and all you stand for is not something with which you must be complicit.
    • Kim Jensen Dear Stanley, thanks for engaging in this dialogue. My husband is a Palestinian. I support BDS all the way. There are many many oppressive regimes in the world, true. But the Palestinian people have been enduring a systematic ethnic cleansing for 64 years without redress and with the support of the US and Western powers. What makes this very distinct is that the vast majority of Palestinians have requested that this picket line not be crossed. To not play would be to support non-violent struggle for long lasting justice for both people. And that stand is a million times more important than any single concert that you may play or not play. The universal language will meet with the universal demand for freedom for ALL!!!!!!
    • Kim Jensen I meant the universal language of music meets with the universal demand for freedom…
    • Stanley Jordan I’m going to look at more of the references here before going deeper into the analogy between Israel and South Africa. But for now let me say this from my own experience. When I did the Sun City Project in the 1980s, I had already been well aware of the boycott there. Even as an undergraduate at Princeton in the late 70s I took part in the protests to get the university to divest from South Africa. So there is no way that I would have ever booked a gig at Sun City to begin with. I’ve played multiple times in Israel, most recently just 4 years ago, and there was no talk then about a BDS boycott. I knew all along the situation was bad, and I even visited the Palestinian section of Jerusalem in 1991. But this boycott is news to me, and I was certainly not aware of it when I booked the Red Sea Jazz Festival.
    • Emma Rosenthal https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10152367421080594&set=a.10150195678405594.437700.108596595593&type=1&theater

      Photo

      Palestinian girl “Ahed Tamimi” awarded the “Hanzala Courage” prize by the Başakşehir Municipality in Istanbul, Turkey.

    • Emma Rosenthal Do you really want to contribute to normalizing this:

      https://www.facebook.com/gaza48/posts/517779388252282
    • Emma Rosenthal http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IAwS78KELOc

      www.youtube.com

      Israel soldiers arresting Nariman Tamimi, an activist from Nabi Saleh,while her daughters cling on to her trying to free her, at the entrance to Nabi Saleh’s…
    • Ana Luz Robinowitz ^ Where’s the honor in supporting this behavior? In singing to these brutes? In keeping your “word” with those who use that word to justify these attrocities?
    • Stanley Jordan Gabriel, you said BDS is organized by over 100 associations. Are any of those organizations anti-Israel, and can you show me a reference or link in which the BDS movement as a whole clearly and unequivocally recognizes the right of Israel to exist?
    • Stanley Jordan One result of all this diligence: The world will know that any action I take in support of the Palestinian People is freely chosen, sincere, and not coerced in any way.
    • Karen MacRae Four years ago, the boycott was in it’s infancy. Now, there is much more support, much more awareness. There are a number of reasons you didn’t know about the boycott. Perhaps your last gig wasn’t in conjunction with the state as it is now which would likely explain why you didn’t know. The boycott targets events that are complicit in maintaining the Israeli occupation. Therefore, any international artists are urged not to perform, lecture or present their work complicit in this case, the Jazz festival, with these institutions.
    • Emma Rosenthal A state gets its right to exist from the consent of the governed. Until all people under control of the state have that right– to move freely, to vote, to go to school, how can we even discuss the state’s legitimacy? 

      And what do you mean by “right to exist”? As a specifically Jewish state, with specific rights for Jews that others don’t have? How is that legitimate? Would the ANC ever have accepted South Africa’s right to exist as a White state, conferring special privileges to Whites only? 

      BDS makes 3 basic demands:

      1. Ending its occupation and colonization of all Arab lands occupied in June 1967 and dismantling the Wall;
      2. Recognizing the fundamental rights of the Arab-Palestinian citizens of Israel to full equality; and
      3. Respecting, protecting and promoting the rights of Palestinian refugees to return to their homes and properties as stipulated in UN Resolution 194.

      For those who demand that Israel continue as a supremacist society conferring specific rights to some over others, these demands equal an existential threat to its existence. The same was said about racist South Africa. 

      “The campaign for boycotts, divestment and sanctions (BDS) is shaped by a rights-based approach and highlights the three broad sections of the Palestinian people: the refugees, those under military occupation in the West Bank and Gaza Strip, and Palestinians in Israel. The call urges various forms of boycott against Israel until it meets its obligations under international law by:

      Ending its occupation and colonization of all Arab lands occupied in June 1967 and dismantling the Wall;
      Recognizing the fundamental rights of the Arab-Palestinian citizens of Israel to full equality; and
      Respecting, protecting and promoting the rights of Palestinian refugees to return to their homes and properties as stipulated in UN Resolution 194.”

      http://www.bdsmovement.net/bdsintro

      www.bdsmovement.net

      The global movement for a campaign of Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions (BDS) against Israel until it complies with international law and Palestinian rights was initiated by Palestinian civil society in 2005, and is coordinated by the Palestinian BDS National Committee (BNC), established in 2007. BD…
    • Emma Rosenthal The idea that activists are being coercive is also something that gets thrown around a bit. But we’re not the ones offering huge paychecks and making wild accusations.We’re not the ones deciding who can and cannot enter a country, can and cannot perform, got to school, go to work, live, marry, raise children. All we have is the truth and our tenacity. We have no power to coerce anything.
    • Elise Hendrick Stanley: No state in the world has a “right to exist”. The only state that has ever claimed one is Israel, and the absurdity of the concept becomes manifest the minute one tries to apply it universally (as any right must be applied). If states have a right to exist, then hasn’t a serious crime been committed against East Germany, for example, or the Soviet Union? What about the Holy Roman Empire? That was a state, and, if states have a “right to exist”, then we have an obligation to rebuild the Holy Roman Empire in order to ensure its continued existence.

      International law – for good reason – does not give states a “right to exist”, either in their present form or in any form at all. This notion of a “right to exist” came into the discourse shortly after it became impossible to deny that all Palestinian factions had recognised the one right Israel, as a state, actually can claim under international law: the right to exist peacefully within recognised borders (though the latter bit is a bit of a sticking point for Israel, since they refuse to state what borders they claim, and the state has expanded well beyond the only borders it is legally permitted to claim). The notion of a “right to exist” was just yet another ploy to avoid any kind of negotiation with the indigenous population.

      Often, Zionists gloss the term “right to exist” as “legitimacy”, and that’s where the real problems come in. Why should anyone recognise the legitimacy of any state, let alone a state that was built on the ethnic cleansing of over 700,000 people, and is explicitly racist? What is legitimate about a state that has first- and second-class citizenship based on ancestry (or anything else, come to that)? And why should any self-respecting Palestinian accept the legitimacy of a regime that seeks to condemn him or her to permanent, irrevocable inferior status?
    • Elise Hendrick If states have a “right to exist”; then the rights of the apartheid regime in South Africa must also be restored.
    • Zoë Lawlor The organisations calling for BDS are not “anti-Israel”, they are anti-apartheid, anti-occupation, anti ethnic cleansing, anti home demolition, anti war crimes, anti roads for one group of people only, anti the imprisoning of 1.6 million people in a tiny area, anti the regular bombing, killing, maiming and terrorising of those people. They are anti injustice.
    • Emily O’ Sullivan It’s not at all easy to pull out of a concert you’ve committed to and I’m sure most of us can appreciate the fact that it is a genuine predicament. Ultimately though, weighing up all the contributions here, if you find that you do support the Palestinian call to boycott state-sponsored events or even if you don’t support the call but wish to remain neutral it’s not too late to pull out of the performance.

      The important thing is to stick to your principles. Now that you have been made aware of the Boycott (which was in its very early stages when you last played Israel) you have more knowledge than you did when you originally committed therefore the parameters have shifted. We ask only that you base your final decision on whether or not is consionable for you to proceed with the performance.
    • Haithem El-Zabri “can you show me a reference or link in which the BDS movement as a whole clearly and unequivocally recognizes the right of Israel to exist?” —> umm, see, this is exactly THE problem. what does “the right of israel to exist” mean? whether you recognize that or not, it means to exist as a “jewish state,” i.e. whereby if you are a jew of any nationality in the world, you can just move to israel and become a citizen with all kinds or rights and privileges that are denied to the NATIVES, while the natives continue to be discriminated against and ethnically cleansed (something that is happening every day under our noses). why should such a racist oppressive state have “a right to exist”?? does that fit with your principles and ethics? why not a state for all its citizens with EQUAL RIGHTS FOR ALL? until israel stops being a racist state, i think it is an absolute no-brainer to boycott it. i’m sure you know what the right thing to do is. i hope your conscience will ensure that you do it. peace..
    • Karen MacRae Israel’s demand to exist is very disingenuous. Israel wants to be recognized as a Jewish state. When it makes this demand, it is effectively demanding that Palestinians must acknowledge Israel’s right to exist as a Jewish state on on the lands of former Mandate Palestine. Acknowledging this would mean Palestinians are acknowledging that Israel has more of a right to live on ancestral Palestinian lands than they do. it’s like asking African Americans to not only recognize that slavery existed, but also must recognize slavery had a right to exist. This is just beyond outrageous for any rational principled person to even comprehend. It’s so so racist.
    • Zoë Lawlor NO state has the right to exist as an apartheid state.
    • Emma Rosenthal Please show me a single Israeli governmental document that shows a Palestinian right to exist– as a people or as a state? OSLO, and many subsequent documents attempted to reconcile a 2 state solution, which in my opinion is still an apartheid solution. There was no mention in OSLO of a recognized Palestinian state.
    • Tom Pessah people have a right to exist, communities do, regimes don’t. The Islamic Republic of Iran has no right to systematically discriminate against minorities by privileging Muslims. Its laws have no “right to exist”. Iranians as people obviously do. So, similarly, any discriminatory legal framework exercised by the Israeli government has no right to exist, but Israelis and Palestinians do, of course.
    • Karen MacRae Besides, the Palestinians and Hamas have already recognized Israel’s right to exist on the green line which is what BDS is essentially basing their calls on. Read the first guideline.
    • Rima Najjar Where does one get the right to form a state by expelling much of its indigenous population, erasing their villages (400+). renaming them and building over them and then gojng on to discriminate against those who remained? And then there is the question of borders that Elise Hendrick has brought up – the constant expansion through settlements, the expropriation of land and water resources, the ethnic cleansing of East Jerusalem through various means and its illegal annexation, the demolishing of homes, uprooting thousands and thousands of olive trees, building the wall on Palestinian land and on and on.
    • Rima Najjar The right term is self determination – to detremine your own fate freely. Israel is determining both its own course of action and that of the Palestinians – to its complete advantage, of course, because it has the power to do so!
    • Karen MacRae Yes, Rima you are right. The real term is self determination and that is indeed a concept under international law. Unlike a state’s “right to exist” which is not.
    • Gabriel Ash Stanley Jordan: It is not my appropriate role to represent the way any Palestinian organization would answer a loaded question like you just asked. The BDS call and the list of signatories is here. And you can ask them these questions yourself. http://www.bdsmovement.net/call. I assume among the signatories you will find those who are closer to you in ideas and those who are further from you. The same will be true of me and anybody else. Allow me however to point what is “loaded” in the questions.

      The call for boycott is a self-contained demand for for fundamental human and civil rights. It is a common denominator. Obviously, each person who supports this call is not obliged to fully agree with any other. I am a socialist. I believe only a socialist transformation can provide a future for all in the region. I also support the BDS call. The BDS call does not call for socialism. Some people who support the BDS call don’t agree with me. I believe they are wrong. They believe I am wrong. Do we have to agree on everything in order to agree that all people deserve their human rights as defined by international law? We’re asking you to act in solidarity with the Palestinian people as a whole in their struggle for equality and justice, not to join any specific organizations with a particular political line beyond that. 

      The call for boycott is based on a series of demands for fundamental human and civil rights as recognizes by international law. Does the validity of fundamental rights depend on the character of the petitioner? Let’s assume that you will find an association supporting BDS that is made of really wretched people, hardened criminals, pedophiles and really unpleasant people that you would never want to have in your house. Indeed, let’s assume that I’m like that. What then? have they forfeited their human rights? Is it ok to break into their house at 4AM, traumatize their children, and jail them without a trial because they aren’t nice or someone who supports them isn’t nice? Do you think people whose opinions or character you disagree with in your own society should be stripped of their rights and treated the way Israel treats Palestinians? The central issue here is (severe) racial discrimination. The very question you ask implies that racial discrimination is justified under certain conditions (if the victims fail to meet certain conditions.) Let me return the question to you. Under what conditions do you think it is legitimate to discriminate, murder, imprison, expropriate property, etc., on the basis of race, nationality, national origins, ethnicity etc.? 

      What is “Israel’s right to exist”? What right has any state to exist? This term is a propaganda term. The only right states have in international law is the right to secure borders. This right can only be recognized by other states. That is the principle of non-aggression which prohibit states from breaching the territorial integrity and sovereignty of other states. The BDS call is issued by civil society groups representing individuals. Non of the signatories has an army or commands a state and threatens the integrity of Israel’s borders or sovereignty, (or could, since Israel has to this day refused to declare what it considers to be its borders). I understand you are a US citizen. Have you been asked to “recognize the right of the US to exist” as a pre-condition for enjoying your civil rights? If you were to declare tomorrow that you think the US should dissolve itself, would that justify stripping you of your civil rights? torturing your children? confiscating your property? 

      Some who use this language are quite clear that what they really mean “Israel has a right to exist as a Jewish state,” namely, that Israel has the right to maintain a particular constitutional order that is based on discrimination to the extent necessary to preserve a particular ethnic domination. I personally am opposed to that and hold that not only Israel does not have that right, but it has the obligation to lose that constitutional order. That is not necessarily the opinion of every Palestinian but it is certainly not unheard of. But let’s put opinions aside. What kind of right is that? Which other country demands recognition of its right to have a particular regime? Am I obliged to recognize the right of Saudi Arabia to be a monarchy? Are you? Are you infringing anybody’s right if you declare your support for democracy in Bahrain? Do you think those challenging Iran’s Islamic constitution are guilty of rejecting Iran’s “right to exist?” Do you think the people in Tahrir Square challenged Egypt’s “right to exist”? Was the call to abolish slavery a challenge to the US “right to exist” (wasn’t that exactly what the slaveholders argued when they seceded?) 

      Having said all that, and I while I insist that that nobody is obliged to do anything to deserve fundamental rights, I would like to call your attention that the BDS call appears in Hebrew on the BDS official page, and specifically says “We also invite conscientious Israelis to support this Call, for the sake of justice and genuine peace.” I also call your attention that the BDS call is limited to demanding that Israel complies with all its international law obligations. Do you think a state can comply with its legal obligations without existing? Or that international law, which is the basis of all rights states have, is inherently incompatible with Israel’s existence?

      Now, the last part of the question is about being “anti-Israel.” Since anti means “against”, everyone who acts against the state of Israel can be called “anti-Israel.” And indeed we are constantly defined that way. Koby Snitz, Israeli mathematician and BDS supporter, was interrogated by the Israeli security services last week. The security services define BDS as a state security issue, i.e.,supporting it endangers the state. (MLK was seen a security state by Edgar Hoover, so that’s hardly original.) Is that what you mean by the term “anti-Israel”? Because that is how the term is usually used. I think BDS is anti-oppression, anti-injustice,and anti-racism, whether it’s anti-Israel is a matter of definitions, including a matter of how you define Israel. 

      Thank you for your engagement and please continue to ask questions. It’s a good way.

      www.bdsmovement.net

      Palestinian Civil SocietyCalls for Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions against Israel Until it Complies with International Law and Universal Principles of Human Rights
    • Karen MacRae Gabriel’s post is so much much worth more than just a “like.”
    • Zoë Lawlor Absolutely! Great post Gabriel, really. And yes, states recognise states. We only hear this about Israel.
    • Rima Najjar Gabriel Ash, if what Socrates said is true – that the unexamined life is not worth living – then your life must be truly worthwhile!
    • Elise Hendrick Yeah, the idea that political parties can recognise states, let alone have any obligation to do so, is about as nonsensical as caring whether the premier of New Brunswick recognises East Timor.
    • Rima Najjar Stanley Jordan’s page has turned into a true education.
    • Jennifer Wood I vote “no” on performing in Israel.
    • Stanley Jordan Emma, thanks for the info. Of the demands you have listed, #2 I can support right off the bat. #3 looks reasonable, but it references a UN resolution, which goes outside of my knowledge, so I’d need to understand better what the resolution actually says, and what it means in context. #1 goes extremely far outside of my knowledge, as I’m not qualified to evaluate issues of border disputes and where the borders were as of any given year. I’m fine with going back to the 1967 borders, as I mentioned earlier. But to go back before then? I have no idea what that means or where that is, let alone what would be involved in implementing it. I appreciate the efforts of everyone who has been informing me here, and I’m willing to learn more. But I have to be honest–this one looks like it will take considerable time for me to understand. If the message of the boycott is to avoid performing in Israel until Palestinians are treated fairly and humanely–that’s one thing. But if you ask me not to play there until the borders are rolled back to a particular configuration–that’s way beyond my current level of understanding. However, i do know this–if you roll it back far enough, Israel no longer exists, and I don’t view that as an acceptable outcome.
    • Stanley Jordan Rima, Ali Abunimah recommends a one-state solution, which I found a little surprising, because I have been assuming for years now that a two-state solution was pretty much the most widely-held goal. I’d be curious to know, is this one-state solution favored by a majority of Palestinians? One interesting thing about this idea–with two states you can hate each other and it doesn’t matter. But with one state, you must have good relations in order for things to work, which brings us back to Lerner’s idea of a change in consciousness.
    • Stanley Jordan Gabriel, your post was brilliant. Thank you so much!
    • Emma Rosenthal Stanley, that question has been addressed in this thread repeatedly, but basically, Israel, with the settlements, which are not a separate entity, but rather part of Israeli governmental policy, has made a 2 state solution impossible. A one state solution already exists. It’s an oppressive, apartheid solution, a combination of Jim Crow (inside the 1967 borders) and reservations/concentration camps (beyond the 67 borders). A 2 state solution does not address the rights of Palestinians inside the 67 borders. (the importance of these borders is key– the 2 state proposal roughly suggests that Israel would exist and withdraw to its pre 67 borders, and Palestine would exist in the West Bank and Gaza — though now there’s some talk of keeping those two separate governmentally as well as geographically. ) Israel’s apartheid wall though is within what would be the Palestinian territory, inside the West Bank, and Israel has continued to expand settlements in Jerusalem and expel Palestinians. A one state solution would be approximately half Jewish and half Palestinian Christian and Muslim (there are Palestinian Jews, btw, who also are second class citizens). 

      But none of that is what BDS calls for. BDS has no position on one state or two state. 

      Let me break down the 3 basic demands:

      1. Ending its occupation and colonization of all Arab lands occupied in June 1967 and dismantling the Wall;

      This is in reference to the “occupied territories” and what would be at least nominally, the basic Palestine, under a 2 state proposal. 

      2. Recognizing the fundamental rights of the Arab-Palestinian citizens of Israel to full equality; 

      This is in reference to Palestinians inside the pre 67 borders, or what would be “Israel” in a 2 state solution. 

      and
      3. Respecting, protecting and promoting the rights of Palestinian refugees to return to their homes and properties as stipulated in UN Resolution 194.

      This is key. It is in reference to those Palestinians and their descendants who were driven out of their homes in 1948, and some, again in 1967. Some of whom still have the deeds and keys to their homes. (A good book to read is Homeland, which tells their stories). Refugees have right of return under international law, and so have the right to their homes in all of historic Palestine. Furthermore, while denying right of return to Palestinians, Israel grants right of “return” to anyone who is Jewish, anywhere in the world, without any proof of any lineage to the region. It’s incredibly racist and discriminatory. I have the right to “return” to Israel, even though as far as I know, my family never lived there, and if we did it was centuries, maybe even thousands of years ago, but Haithem El-Zabri cannot, even though his family was expelled only decades ago. 

      The U.N resolution is simply that document by the U.N. that reinforces and asserts that inalienable right.
    • Emma Rosenthal oops, i’m not finished that one so refresh, in a second before reading it ^
    • Zoë Lawlor Stanley, the BDS call is there for people to support and learn from – it’s not up for negotiation though in this kind of context. You keep referencing the existence of Israel but what about the existence of Palestine? The one state solution envisages a state based on equality for ALL its citizens, I cannot see what is not good about that. The two state solution not only is inequitable, it is absolutely impossible. I appreciate you taking the time to read up on this but really and ultimately you should listen to the Palestinian voices. Imagine being asked to play apartheid South Africa and then looking through the white colonialist prism…. it’s not a sustainable position for someone of integrity.
    • Emma Rosenthal okay, now i’m done
    • Emma Rosenthal The problem with the 2 state solution is it doesn’t answer the question of the inalienable rights of Palestinians in what would be Israel under that model. Nor does it address what would happen to the Jews in settlements in the West Bank. Palestinian identity is very connected to their homes, villages, the land. Moving someone from Tel Aviv to Jenin would not be justice. So even a 2 state solution has to deal with the rights of Palestinians within any Israeli state. A 1 state solution would be based on universal human rights and equality. It would also mean that the Jews living in the settlements, not all of whom are there for ideological reasons, would not have to leave their homes and their communities. They would simply have to learn to live with the people around them, share the resources and stop what is housing discrimination and segregation in the extreme.
    • Sylvia Posadas Stanley Jordan: “If the message of the boycott is to avoid performing in Israel until Palestinians are treated fairly and humanely–that’s one thing”

      Essentially, yes, Stanley, that is all that is being requested of you.
    • Emma Rosenthal Precisely. 
      demand 1– That Palestinians have full autonomy in what are the “Occupied Territories” and that the apartheid wall, which is in that territory, come down. 
      demand 2: That Palestinian Israelis inside what is Israel (minus the Occupied Territories) have full equal rights with Jewish Israelis, and 
      demand 3: That Palestinians who have been displaced and expelled be allowed right of return– a right given to all Jews all over the world, are granted by Israel. 

      Some would argue that this would pose an existential threat to the state of Israel, and I would ask them, how is it that full equal civil and human rights are an existential threat? What kind of a state is it, that is existentially threatened by equal rights?
    • Emma Rosenthal Let’s talk about the elephant in the living room: the vast history of Jewish suffering, which happened for the most part, in Europe, not in Historic Palestine. My rights as a Jew are not upheld by the oppression of Palestinians. My rights as a Jew are secured in a universal struggle for human rights for everyone. Palestinians are not my enemy. They do not threaten my existence. Racism has threatened my existence, as it now threatens Palestinian existence.
    • Stanley Jordan I’ve benefited greatly by learning and using NLP (Neuro-Linguistic Programming) which is, essentially, the study of the structure of subjective experience. I keep returning to the concept of subjectivity in this thread because I believe this inner path is under-appreciated and underutilized. I hope you all know by now that I do want to support the Palestinian People. But I have to admit, I do have an issue with this idea that canceling my upcoming gig is the only way I can be supportive. What NLP shows is that our way of thinking has a profound effect on the possibilities we experience in life. Limited thinking leads to limited results. And quite often when we are denied adequate tangible tools, this inner dimension becomes even more important. This discussion has opened my mind considerably, and I thank everyone for that. In turn, I also ask the BDS supporters to open your minds to the possibility that I may be helpful in ways that are different from what you had originally thought.http://www.amazon.com/Get-Life-You-Want-Neuro-Linguistic/dp/0757307760/ref=sr_1_8?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1356660411&sr=1-8&keywords=NLP

      www.amazon.com

      When people and therapists alike have a problem they can’t fix, they call Richard Bandler because he delivers–often with miraculous results. Hailed as one of the greatest geniuses in the field of personal change, and the father of Neuro-Linguistic Programming, Richard Bandler has helped tens of …
    • Sylvia Posadas Stanley, you may well be helpful in other ways that one cannot imagine, yet a breach of the boycott will negate the subjective experiences of oppression and the tactic to which Palestinian people have individually committed.
    • Kim Pearson Stanley, would there be a way for you to connect with a group like Combatants for Peace and incorporate them into whatever you decide to do?http://cfpeace.org/?page_id=2

      cfpeace.org

      The “Combatants for Peace” movement was started jointly by Palestinians and Israelis, who have taken an active part in the cycle of violence; Israelis as soldiers in the Israeli army (IDF) and Palestinians as part of the violent struggle for Palestinian freedom. After brandishing weapons for so many…
    • Emma Rosenthal Cancelling your gig isn’t the only way you can be supportive, but it is one way, it’s a start. Keeping the gig is clearly what the Israeli government wants you to do, as part of a clear strategy of normalization and legitimization. You cannot support the Palestinians and cross that picket line. Nothing you do, from then on, will have any credibility, short of denouncing your choice in the first place, and if that anticipated regret is honest, why put yourself through that?
    • Sylvia Posadas Stanley, I’d be interested too, as someone who used NLP with oppressed people for years, in any ideas you have, other than normalisation methodology i.e. equivocating the oppressor and oppressed in ‘peace and dialogue’ which obscures the real power relationships, in empowering Palestinians, and in particular how NLP could assist the chosen tactic of Palestinian people of boycott, divestment and sanctions. My own experience with NLP was in employing it as a tool to work ethically with people’s chosen and inherent motivations for empowerment.
    • Zoë Lawlor Well the Palestinians have the subjective experience down on this issue and they are asking for people not to play – it’s that simple. they are not asking for people to play and then say they will help in other ways more ‘acceptable’ to them – they are asking people not to cross their picket line.
    • Karen MacRae Stanley, it has nothing to do with ‘opening our minds.” The Palestinians, the oppressed, the victimized have decided BDS was the method is the best way to their liberation. The best way FOR THEM. We are supporting their call because they requested us to, not because it was our idea. So, you can tell the Palestinians that the method they chose to bring about their own freedom might not be the most helpful way and they should open their minds to other methods. I most unequivocally will not because I am not capable of the sort of arrogance that would allow me to lecture oppressed people, oppressed people my tax dollars fund in oppressing, how they manage their own resistance. This is what I object to. The position of privilege lecture. It’s the same as telling Martin Luther King, or Gandhi that their methods striving for dignity and their rights was somehow debatable, unhelpful, “negative.” In fact, that’s what white people said to Martin Luther King Jr. They said it to Gandhi. They said it to Mandela. But these privileged whites were wrong. Their methods played a major role in the civil rights movement. It played a part in India. It played a huge role in ending apartheid in South Africa. And you show us a book on how to live the life we want. You’ve got to be kidding me. I’m dumbfounded.
    • Sylvia Posadas In my experience with NLP, one doesn’t have to even know the problem someone has, in order to empower them to deal with it. It’s a really unintrusive counselling tool where the client does the work for themselves. This means one doesn’t have get them to ‘confess’ or ‘tell them what to do or how to live’, just identify their strongest strategies and help them reinforce them. 

      BDS is Palestinian people’s strongest strategy – ethically we should be reinforcing that with NLP.
    • Zoë Lawlor @Karen – absolutely – it is NOT up to outsiders to tell people how best to resist the oppression they are subjected to.
    • James Martin Performing in Israel is a sign that you are endorsing Apartheid! Or it may suggest that you are just some sort of person who just wants to spread some sort of fame and drive up the profits regardless of the consequences! Legitimating the actions of Zionism IS comparable to legitimating the actions of South African white minority over the indigeneous community. We were successful in South Africa, we are asking for your support in Israel to be successful in ending Apartheid. Apartheid has no right to exist in the world we are trying to create!
    • James Martin What is insulting in my comment? I’m defining the behavior of someone who would perform in Israel. I see nothing insulting in my comment! You are overreacting!
    • Elise Hendrick Stanley Jordan: “If the message of the boycott is to avoid performing in Israel until Palestinians are treated fairly and humanely–that’s one thing”

      That is precisely what the BDS appeal is all about. It is not a permanent boycott of Israel or all things Israeli (though Zionist propagandists do love to claim the contrary, knowing it’s a lie). It is a boycott of the Israeli state and its core institutions until such time as all the Palestinians, whether they’re ’48 Palestinians with Israeli passports or ’67 Palestinians living in the West Bank, Gaza, and occupied East Jerusalem, – not to mention the refugees who have been forced into the vast Palestinian diaspora – are genuinely and fully guaranteed their most basic human rights – freedom, self-determination, and legal, social, and economic equality. 

      ” But I have to admit, I do have an issue with this idea that canceling my upcoming gig is the only way I can be supportive.”

      The question that arises, however (regardless of your intentions), is what you will, in effect be supportive of. The Israeli regime quite openly treats all forms of cultural exchange as propaganda, as a means of “proving” that Israel is an open, democratic, diverse society and moving the focus away from house demolitions, ethnic cleansing, cultural genocide, land theft, and a state so openly racist that it considers every birth in the indigenous population to be part of a “demographic threat”.

      I stress that the question is not your intentions, which seem to me to be good, but the effect of your actions, the way in which a decision by you not to cancel your performance in the apartheid regime will be used by the regime and its apologists, and please do not doubt that it WILL be used.

      It will be used, as a way of crowding dead and mutilated Palestinians – who don’t much attention to begin with because atrocities are such a bummer – out of the news cycle and the public’s attention in order to facilitate further crimes. If you go, there is nothing you will be able to do in order to prevent your presence being exploited in this fashion – your words can be edited or cut from the footage, inconvenient quotes left out of the press releases, because you’re not the one who gets to do the framing – the regime is, and they spend a lot of time and money finding ways to turn an event into its opposite and to twist people’s words beyond recognition if it somehow helps them project the image they’re trying to project. 

      The Palestinians, most of whom will not be allowed anywhere near your performance, have decided that the best way to further their interests is for artists like yourself to refuse to dignify the regime with their presence, in order to deny the Israeli government the opportunity to whitewash all that institutionalised ugliness with a fresh coat of faux pluralism. The BDS appeal has been around for years now, and not a single Palestinian organisation of any weight (indeed, to my knowledge, not a single Palestinian organisation full stop) has ever come out against the tactic. As such, it seems fair to say that the Palestinian consensus on one of the best ways that those of us who aren’t there to demonstrate with them and bear direct witness to their violent oppression, is that we should simply deny the regime our patronage. 

      A number of artists have already done so. Some of whom, such as Elvis Costello, have made excellent statements explaining their reasons for cancelling gigs in the apartheid state that draw attention to the suffering inflicted on the Palestinian people and our responsibility to do what we can to put an end to it. Adding your voice to the growing list would be an extremely strong statement – stronger, indeed, as Emma Rosenthal noted above, than had you simply turned down the gig to begin with – in favour of freedom, equality, and justice for the Palestinians.
    • Stanley Jordan Karen, your comments are well-taken and I’ll address them now. Please forgive me if any of my comments came off as arrogant in any way. That was never my intention. I am, however, the one who is being asked to cancel a gig. I have contracts in place that affect many others than just myself. And it’s not just because of a business deal that I feel bound to keep my word, but also because of my commitment to my music. This is what I have to offer in this world to everyone. You tell me that canceling a gig will do more good than playing it, and I do see how you arrive at this conclusion. I’m a student of music therapy, and in MT we have a thing called “Behavioral Music Therapy”, which includes using music as positive/negative reinforcement to influence behavior. This can include the withholding of music, so I do understand the principle. But to believe it is the only or the best approach to use seems very limiting to me. I assure you the feeling behind my comments is all about love and respect, and a sincere desire to give my very best.
    • Ty Masta I did’nt read da whole rant but just want to say I lOVE YOU……… STAN DA MAN!!!!!!!!
    • Satkirin Khalsa You’ve got my support! “Be the change…” Love, Peace, and Kindness…..
    • J Kēhaulani Kauanui Do the right thing; cancel the gig, and honor the request of Palestinian civil society. It’s a credibility issue – don’t play for apartheid. Take a stand against colonialism and military occupation. You will be cherished and remembered for it – for taking a principled stance.
    • J Kēhaulani Kauanui http://electronicintifada.net/blogs/nora/singer-cassandra-wilson-cancels-israel-show-i-identify-cultural-boycott-israel

      electronicintifada.net

      US jazz vocalist Cassandra Wilson has canceled her gig this weekend at the Women’s Festival in Holon, following appeals by boycott, divestment and sanctions (BDS) activists encouraging her to respect the Palestinian call for boycott.
    • Emma Rosenthal Be the change! We can connect you with venues and people not associated with Israeli propaganda and the Israeli military. We can help you get gigs in the West Bank, in Palestinian communities, in places Palestinians can attend. Your music can be very healing, as a statement of solidarity, artist to artist, person to person. No one is saying not to perform in Israel/Palestine, but not to contribute to the illusion that perpetuates a terrible regime. You have been put in a terrible position, by people who did not fully disclose to you the nature of the gig, that there was a political boycott and who knew full well that you would be advised and lobbied by activists not to attend. They knew all that, and signed you up, without disclosing any of it.
    • Tom Pessah Stanley – as an Israeli all I want is to have full and complete equality with palestinians, including palestinian citizens who studied with me in university and are still very good friends. It isn’t a question of borders, it’s a question of equality. Would you accept your country systematically granting you more rights than friends from a different religion, race or ethnicity? in Israel itself (not only in the West Bank) palestinian communities are regularly cleared to make room for jewish-only ones. http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4287018,00.html We’re talking about Israel recognizing everyone’s fundamental rights. 

      If you feel you don’t know enough, take a step back, take some time to educate yourself and then make your decision. But openly ignoring the boycott call will be interpreted as support for all these discriminatory policies, not as neutrality. Macy Gray performed there, and later tweeted – “i had a reality check and I stated that I definitely would not have played there if I had known even the little that I know now.” http://refrainplayingisrael.posterous.com/macy-grey-regrets-feb-concert-in-tel-aviv-isr

      www.ynetnews.com

      News: Government’s decision to convert Umm al-Hiran into Jewish settlement enrages Bedouin residents; ‘You can’t just take an Arab and put a Jew in his place. This is Nakba of 2012,’ they say
    • Stephen A. Mendez Stanley…I’ve read a lot of what is being shared here and would like to say that you aren’t going to Israel to play in a Jazz festival because of political ideology. You plan to go and share your talent with music lovers and regular people. This boycott and the pressure that is being exerted on musicians to boycott is over the line and intrusive.

      The suggestion that anyone who does not go along with the boycott is in some way less of a human being is plain wrong. You folks have your point of view. You are entitled to it. 

      Israel was given a right to exist by the British. The UN recognized that back in 1948. The Brits gave most of Palestine to Arabs. In 1967 Israel was forced to go to war to defend themselves against an alliance that was out to eradicate them…a small number of people in comparison with the number of Arabs in that area. They gave back the Sinai Peninsula to Egypt when Egypt agreed to leave them alone. They haven’t had any offers to live in peace from anyone else and so they need to hold onto territories that give them defendable borders. There are Palestinians living within the borders of Israel and then a majority of Palestinians living in disputed lands. That land and more was originally promised to Israel back in 1948.

      Israel takes better care of the “Palestinians” than any other nation in the Middle East. Sure, they put restrictions on them but this isn’t a population that lives like any other on earth. You can choose to be blind to the offences of the Palestinians all you want but Israel does not need to play deaf, dumb and blind for to do so is suicidal.

      I can go on and on about this but the bottom line is this, Stanley, you have a right to feel free to travel to see any set of people on Earth and perform for them. They have a right to expect you to hold true to your word. Denying innocent people a chance to see you play because some group is trying to push their agenda and their version of reality on anyone who would show love or camaraderie to them is wrong.

      I wish you’d guys would back off and stop turning everything into some kind of holy war. I’m sure there are loads of Palestinians who would love to go see Stanley as well and in Israel of all places.

      I support you going Stanley and just sharing with these people who love your art as you would anyone else. Discriminating against Israelis and anyone else who would be showing up for the festival is not going to spread love and peace but rather offend a people who are under attack every day of their lives.
    • Emma Rosenthal “The suggestion that anyone who does not go along with the boycott is in some way less of a human being is plain wrong. You folks have your point of view. You are entitled to it. ” — Except that that’s not our point of view- No one said anyone was less of a human being. That’s a rather nasty and dishonest argument.
    • Sylvia Posadas Stanley, I can feel your predicament. Yet what music would you play to therapise racists who don’t want to stop being racists?
    • Emma Rosenthal I would like to point out that the comments made by Stephen are exactly the way your participation in the festival would be interpreted, regardless of how many times you’ve said you want to support Palestinians. It’s going to be spun as some endorsement of the regime and will be used as an opportunity to blame Palestinians for the situation that is forced upon them.
    • Stanley Jordan Elise, thank you for your comments. They really helped me to see how the media puts a spin on things and I can see how, through selective editing, anything I do can be interpreted as supportive of things that I don’t even believe in. Here in the U.S. we get lots of detail about a small number of stories so, just as in Israel, any media coverage I get at all can help to fill the news cycle and therefore crowd out serious stories such as the suffering of Palestinians, which is a topic that our media also seems very reluctant to show. But at the end of the day, this is out of my hands, as I don’t control the media and how they choose to cover stories. In fact, I’m sure that even my cancellation could be spun.
    • Elise Hendrick “Israel was given a right to exist by the British. The UN recognized that back in 1948.”

      I was wondering when the pro-apartheid contingent would make their presence known. There is not much worth commenting on in the litany of historical inaccuracies recited by Stephen Mendez above in defence of the apartheid regime, except for one, key, aspect: The indigenous Palestinian population do not exist at all in his retelling. 

      “Israel was given a right to exist by the British” – leaving aside that that is a complete misstatement of the Balfour Declaration and the Mandate, note who apparently has NO right to a say on what was to be done with Palestine – the people whose country it is. They were sold down the river in a deal made without even inviting them to the table to watch, and so it has continued to this day.

      Stanley, you brought up the analogy of therapy, and I’d like to walk down that path a bit, since you brought it up. Usually, a person who is in therapy is there because they are looking for your help – they have a problem and they want your expertise and talent to help them work through it. 

      That is not the case here. The polls show very clearly that the Israeli Jewish population – the vast majority – do not feel the least bit bad about the racism inherent in their society. They just want proof that others feel the same way, much like the guy who tells the nasty rape “jokes” that even he doesn’t think are all that funny. Any sign of approval, any positive reinforcement, is taken as a sign that what they are doing, what their society is all about, is just fine. 

      So you have in Israel an utterly unwilling therapy client, if we are thinking of this in terms of individual therapy. 

      However, I don’t think individual therapy is the best analogy. What we are dealing with is more in the nature of relationship therapy. The relationship between Israel and the indigenous Palestinian population is the classic abusive relationship on a mass scale. In an abusive relationship, the victim of the abuse is systematically deprived of support structures and even of the ability to articulate what he or she (well, usually she) is going through. 

      The abuser, on the other hand, doesn’t generally want to change, and why should he? He’s getting what he wants. The abuse is working for him. Any attempt to make him change his ways will be a non-starter since the abuse gets the desired results.

      So the real question, in this metaphorical therapeutic relationship, is how we can go about helping the abused party. Howe we can help them reclaim their voice and their power in the situation and have a life of dignity, free of constant fear and crushing violence.
    • Emma Rosenthal Music festivals are the public face of the abuser, his charming side, his endearing side– “See, he’s not that bad, that festival was full of light and love, and he says he treats her so well, better than all the other women in the area are treated”
    • Emma Rosenthal If you remember the struggle against South African apartheid, Stephen’s accounts sound terribly familiar– Remember hearing how South African Blacks didn’t want peace? How they had been offered bantustans? How much better they had it than other Blacks in other countries in the region?
    • Elise Hendrick Stanley: Certainly, your cancellation could indeed be spun. However, and I think experience backs me up on this (if I’m wrong, I’m sure someone can correct me), I think it would be much more likely that the regime would not want to dwell on yet another embarrassing public relations setback, and would be more likely to try to change the subject, rather than, say, trying to exact some kind of propaganda payback. I pay pretty close attention to these things, and I don’t think Elvis Costello or Jello Biafra or any of the others has been targeted for any kind of nasty spin for their principled decision to heed the picket line.
    • Emma Rosenthal Stevie Wonder just backed out of an event, days before it was scheduled to take place.
    • Evan McHugh McAwesome Stanley, your cancellation probably would be spun, in the short term, but thats usually the price to pay for being on the right side of history!
    • Rima Najjar Dear Stanley – I got up this morning to steel myself to take a look at what’s going on here. To me, this discussion, although surprisingly clean of Zionist hasbara for a change, is still terribly painful. Intellectually, every single argument under the sun has been made (and some repeatedly). The emotional appeal has also gone as far as it can go Because you are black, the empathy requested of you is not totally in the abstract. And yet, forgive me if this sounds harsh, it appears to me we are still at exactly the same point we started. Ironically, by being so generous and allowing this conversation to take place, you have put yourself into even a more difficult position than the one you started out with. Both sides will have their say after you make your decision, you can be sure of it. If you choose to keep your gig, you will have to deal with that. So, at this point, I just have to sign off and let you be.
    • Stanley Jordan Elise, of course the music therapy idea was just an analogy. My concert in Israel is booked as a performance and not a therapy session. I also do therapeutic music activities, but that’s different. For example I did a session for kids with Down Syndrome in Beirut in 2003, and that definitely was not a concert. But I’m still a student and I don’t call myself a music therapist. That said, the reason I thought of this analogy is that cancelling my show in Israel can be likened to a kind of behavioral music therapy, because the music is used as reinforcement. This framing helped me to understand the purpose and intended effect of the boycott. Now if we add to this your frame of the Jewish Israelis as the abuser and the indigenous Palestinians as the victim, it seems to me that this would be analogous to the victim asking the therapist to treat the abuser using behavioral music therapy by denying them music, and insisting that no other intervention the therapist may come to devise will be acceptable. Of course these are just analogies, but hopefully you can see why I’m led to consider other possibilities.
    • Emma Rosenthal This comes from Tali Shapiro who I thought might want to add to the conversation. She’s a member of Boycott from Within. Friday is the day for demonstrations, and she’s very involved with them every week:

      “Hon, I’m on my way out to a demo. I hope I can come back to this later this evening and that it won’t be too late. In the meantime, please use the information in my latest article 

      http://pulsemedia.org/2012/12/25/israel-2012-the-question-of-a-nation-what-does-culture-have-to-do-with-politics-part-2/ Especially the technical information about why the festival is boycottable under the subtitle “Who Profits from the Institutionalizing and Normalizing of the Occupation?”

      The guy sounds like he has a conscious, so he may be interested in how participating is a human rights violation. It’s all in the article, and if it isn’t clear, there’s more about it in 

      http://pulsemedia.org/2012/12/12/israel-2012-the-question-of-a-nation-what-does-culture-have-to-do-with-politics/

      I’m sorry, I gotta run. But I’ll get in there after the teargas clears, I promise.
      You’re amazing to do all this one-on-one debating 
      hugs 
      T

      Israel 2012, The Question of a Nation: What Does Culture Have to Do with Politics? (Part 2)
      www.facebook.com

      She goes on to say:

      “If he wants to talk to me. I’ll be there tonight (unless arrested of course). Other than that, artists that aren’t sure what to do, should always contact the initiators of the call directly pacbi@pacbi.org”

      pulsemedia.org

      Earlier this week, I found a message in my inbox by an Israeli, who’s a Jazz musician, who’s paying gig was canceled because of a successful BDS movement campaign to get Swedish Jazzist, Andreas Öb…
    • Emma Rosenthal Stanley, it’s not like the abused telling the therapist not to use any other therapies. IT’s like the abused telling the therapist that the therapy he’s considering applying could in fact make things much worse for the victim.
    • Stanley Jordan Emma, you said, “…We can help you get gigs in the West Bank, in Palestinian communities, in places Palestinians can attend. … No one is saying not to perform in Israel/Palestine, but not to contribute to the illusion…” Yes, I have wanted to play in Palestinian communities for years.
    • Evan McHugh McAwesome Maybe you could gig in Ramallah instead and convince your Israeli fans to cross the border, because thats actually possible. If you play in Israel, most-to-all of the Palestinians will be refused visas and humiliated at the border if they attempt to leave the West Bank.
    • Elise Hendrick “Yes, I have wanted to play in Palestinian communities for years.”

      Well, you’ve come to the right place. There are a number of people in this thread who would probably be able to help make that happen.
    • Elise Hendrick Evan: Exactly. Israeli Jews can move freely within Israel and the ’67 occupied territories; Palestinians are subject to the whims of the nearest Israeli teenager with an assault rifle even to go to hospital, let alone to attend cultural events.
    • Adrian Boutureira Sansberro Dear Stanley, et al…I have read all the messages above. It has at times been painful to navigate. I feel there are too many unnecessary analogies and tangents being introduced, which are not ultimately helping us address some of the pending core issues originally raised. Most importantly, what does being In Solidarity mean? 

      I have been a solidarity activist for the better part of 20 years and I have helped build national and international solidarity networks, including the Zapatista Solidarity Network and the Latin America Solidarity Network, here in the US.

      There are a few fundamental tenets as to what constitutes being “in solidarity” in the movements I have been a part of. These tenets arise from years of accumulated shared experiences. Firstly, we are in solidarity with the oppressed, not the oppressor. Secondly, being in solidarity entails being able to take direction from those one claims to be in solidarity with. Learning how to take direction, as to what is it that those we are in solidarity with wish us to do, is a huge aspect of shifting the relationships of power between the oppressed and the oppressor. It is also a way to really come face to face with our own true commitment and power issues. 

      To do as we wish, is not being in solidarity. It is practicing supremacist charity. I say supremacist, because even when people claim to be in solidarity, they refuse to relinquish their own power and privilege as individuals. They refuse to surrender their own interests. They refuse to recognize that the collective must always be greater than the individual, or we are not in solidarity at all. We are then independent actors who can not accept taking direction for whatever reason.

      In my experience White males have always the hardest time surrendering that power. After them, males of all sorts. We always think that we know best. That our ideas are just as valid as, if not even better informed than, the ideas of those who are suffering directly the consequences of their oppression. We want them to listen to “us” to consider our enlightened point of view. 

      Well, that is supremacist, that is patriarchy, that is not solidarity. We do not lead, we do not enlighten, we do not propose the third way…We take DIRECTION. If we can’t do that, we must then at least be honest enough with ourselves that we are not in solidarity at all, but are merely sympathetic to a cause. I am not sympathetic with the Palestinian cause. I am in solidarity with the Palestinian cause, and will take direction from the Palestinian people as to how I can best show that what that means is real to me and to my social, cultural, economic and political ethic. 

      Love, Justice, and Solidarity,

      Adrian Boutureira
    • Ken Davis It may be good to play in a Palestinian city, but it is illegal under Israeli law for Israelis of Jewish nationality to enter Area A in West Bank, the cities under Palestinian “civil administrative control”, according to the red Hebrew signs on the roads
    • Alexandra Ferentinos Thanks Ken. The links below mention how it’s illegal for Israeli citizens under Israeli law to visit Ramallah which is in “Area A” of the West Bank . Can someone explain how strictly this law is enforced?

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Administrative_divisions_of_the_Oslo_Accords
      “Entry into this area is forbidden to all Israeli citizens.”

      http://wikitravel.org/en/Ramallah
      “Bear in mind that, under Israeli law, it is illegal for Israelis to enter Ramallah.”
    • Gabriel Ash Ken Davis: Ken, it is illegal but perfectly possible. segregation laws are made to be broken.
    • Gabriel Ash Rima NajjarKaren MacRae, Stanley, thanks for the too kind compliments. Stanely, please do the right thing. And you should definitely play in Palestine. There are many ways to arrange that in a principled way without allowing yourself to be instrumentalized.
    • Blac Knight Can’t add much to what has already been written, except to say Israel is currently forging ahead with its plans to foreclose the possibility of a 2 state solution by building a new settlement in the E1 block. This has outraged even Israel’s closest allies (such as the US and Germany). The only thing that worries Israel re the Occupation is the international reaction to what it’s doing. If you perform in Israel at this critical time, they will represent it as you being fine with what they are doing.
    • Cameron Keys I, too, have read and considered all the comments — I have learned so much from Gabriel, Elise, Emma, Rima, Sylvia, Tom, et al. Thanks to everyone for putting such energy into this discussion.

      To Stanley: 

      There are many practical strategies and sequences of action that you could consider taking that would (I suggest) both honor the spirit of the comments made above and honor your difficult situation vis-a-vis having never cancelled a gig. The sequence of action that involves cancelling the gig — which is what many comments ask of you — is perhaps difficult, but obvious. I will enumerate a variety of alternatives that involve actually playing at the Red Sea Jazz Festival. None of the alternatives is without difficulties. When this is all finished and you have made up your mind, I wonder if you would perhaps be willing to outline the decision calculus that drove your final decision for us? This would be instructive. 

      1) You could attempt to take a set of precautions that limit the media’s ability to spin your presence as a normalization of inequalities.
      2) You could play in Israel and subsequently in Palestinian lands — and document your encounters with Palestinians and Israelis through writing, and video, etc. This could become a very poignant short film project, for example.
      3) You could talk informally (perhaps briefly) to the crowd at the Festival about your situation, express hope for a spiritual solution to the conflict, and invite audiences to interpret your performance itself as a reflection of the complexities involved and an effort to motivate a spiritual solution.
      4) You could do interviews in Israel with various journalists about the complexities involved in your decision to play the Red Sea Jazz Festival. 
      5) You could donate any or all of your appearance fee to various causes as you see fit, or perhaps use the fee to produce a short film about the complexities of your role as a musician in motivating a spiritual solution to the (US)/Israel/Palestine conflict. 
      6) You could introduce into your set list a time for improvising on the themes developed and transmitted in this Facebook thread. (Think of Jimi Hendrix utilizing the star spangled banner as a platform for exploring themes of hypocrisy at Woodstock). You could for example take your brilliant Bela Bartok piece and insert some distinctly ‘Arabic’ counterpoint that expresses the intrusion of this political/cultural situation into the performance of your music.

      These are just a few ideas. While I find the comments above persuasive, I still do not consider them to exhaust the creative possibilities at Stanley’s disposal. I maintain that Stanley’s presence at the Festival does not inherently signal his endorsement of normalization. Many of the comments seem to suggest that Stanley’s presence at the Festival would result in permanent ire from activists for Palestinian equality. That would be so unfortunate! You can all appreciate Stanley’s situation, I think. My inclination is to suggest that Stanley utilize his spiritual gifts (as one of the best guitarists of this or any age) in ways that no one expects in this particular situation. Rather than adhere to the straightforward requests of the BDS or the expectations of the concert promoters and Israeli state, I hope Stanley can improvise a way to speak UNIQUELY in response to this really urgent and historically definitive moment in time.
    • Rima Najjar Cameron Keys: Your suggestions are certainly creative and could be useful in some way, should Stanley decide to go that route. But since this has been a journey of understanding, let’s just at least be clear on what the choices you outline on the one hand and the boycott call on the other each signify or mean. Your choices are creative, as I said, and may have a positive effect, but they will undoubtedly mean that Stanley has chosen not to stand in solidarity with the Palestinians asking him to act in a certain way. Of the many things I have learned through this discussion, one of the most valuable clarifications has been this (provided by Adrian Boutureira):

      “Being in solidarity entails being able to take direction from those one claims to be in solidarity with. Learning how to take direction, as to what is it that those we are in solidarity with wish us to do, is a huge aspect of shifting the relationships of power between the oppressed and the oppressor. It is also a way to really come face to face with our own true commitment and power issues.

      To do as we wish, is not being in solidarity. It is practicing supremacist charity. I say supremacist, because even when people claim to be in solidarity, they refuse to relinquish their own power and privilege as individuals. They refuse to surrender their own interests. They refuse to recognize that the collective must always be greater than the individual, or we are not in solidarity at all. We are then independent actors who can not accept taking direction for whatever reason.”
    • Adrian Boutureira Sansberro Cameron, yes. I can appreciate it. And if Stanley chose to go the route of not supporting the boycott, which is what Palestinians are asking us all to do, he could indeed do other things of his choice, not as part of a cohesive effort by thousands of others acting in solidarity though, and that is critical to try to get deeper into. I know we live in a highly hyper individualistic culture, but we have to understand that there are times when we need to try to transcend that. the cult of the individual is a supremacist construct. I we are truly hoping to be agents of positive change, then it becomes critical for us to figure out why we might be unable to transcend that. Why we cant surrender that. 

      There is no more history and points of reference left to share as to the reason why there is a boycott . The information has been made available. This is now indeed an individual’s choice, but indeed one which one must ask it’s nature irregardless of what it is. Canceling a gig might seem like huge ordeal, but losing ones land, children and future to a brutal occupation is also. Our much loved sister, Rachel Corrie, gave her life in her solidarity work for Palestine. The Israeli army murdered her for daring to try to prevent a home demolition. After a mock trial, the Israeli army was acquitted of any guilt. And here we stand, having this rather interesting discussion now, about the complications of canceling a gig…

      Were Stanley to unfurl a giant banner on stage saying “stop the occupation”, play a jazz version of the Palestinian national anthem while wearing a Palestinian keffiyeh, stop the gig to ask the audience if the concert is taking place on illegally occupied land, or to project a video on the stage showing the children killed in Gaza during the last attack, as radical and totally awesome as all of those options are, and I do not hear him talk about doing any of those things as an alternative, it would still entail not honoring the boycott.

      The issue remains. There is a requested solidarity course of action for artists and musicians to follow, which has been asked for by the Palestinian people. If he plays in Israel, he is choosing to disregard that request. That is not an insignificant power message in and of itself, no matter how imaginative, radical or spiritually enlightened his alternative course of action might be. I understand it as a huge dilemma, but we must understand what the root nature of the principles and constructs behind each course of action being discussed here truly are. Hundreds of artists and musicians have faced the same dilemma and made the choice to boycott as an act of solidarity against South African apartheid in its time, and now many others are doing the same against Israeli apartheid. Simply put, Stanley has to decide if he wants to be part of that movement or not.
    • Emma Rosenthal It’s not a question of performing at the festival AND in Palestine. It’s an either/or. This has been proposed by other performers breaking the boycott, and it’s not been well received. No one who honors the boycott is going to produce a concert in Ramallah that would normalize breaking the boycott. As Adrian has pointed out, this comes down to seeing beyond one’s individualism and joining the larger multitudes.
    • Karen MacRae Cameron’s suggestions are wonderful and creative and I’m sure we can all assist in getting them implemented in some way very easily. Just one quick point however, we could implement all the fantastic ideas you listed and Stanley could still turn down the Jazz Festival, actually. He can still utilize his spirituality while playing different venues other than venues complicit with the state. I question why you think he cannot? Seems sort of defeatist to me to suggest his talents can only be fully recognized if he plays the Jazz Festival along with entertaining Palestinians and Israelis at neutral venues that all can enjoy? Most Palestinians won’t be able to attend the Jazz Festival. Perhaps Cameron is unclear on the rules that guide BDS. Many people are and we are happy to educate! Israel’s official campaigns are launched in order to portray the image of a normal state. A state that respects all it’s citizens, a state that respects human rights, regardless of colour, religion, sex etc. A refuge for all peoples. We know this is outrageously false as amply demonstrated above. Israel, at the moment is about to embark on a mass expulsion of African refugees. Some of which they starved in the desert for six full days. Israel aims to whitewash these crimes, the occupation and apartheid conditions by promoting itself through various official state sponsored “Brand Israel” campaigns such as the Red Sea Jazz Festival. The state is responsible for the horrific crimes that Israel carries out daily and the racist institutional structures that discriminate against the Palestinians, the African refugees and Jews as well. The festival is just another addition to the long list of official events that exemplify how Israel normalizes itself and it’s image to the world. Now the Palestinians, naturally have decided they deeply resent their oppression and have launched the BDS campaign which we have gone into great detail on this incredibly informative thread. I also echo Adrian’s inspiring words and I urge Cameron to take heed, because I don’t see any real solidarity with the Palestinians even though he appears to think otherwise. We have one request. That’s it. Don’t be complicit with the State. It’s very, very simple. Here is the bottom line: 

      ” We do not lead, we do not enlighten, we do not propose the third way…We take DIRECTION. If we can’t do that, we must then at least be honest enough with ourselves that we are not in solidarity at all, but are merely sympathetic to a cause. I am not sympathetic with the Palestinian cause. I am in solidarity with the Palestinian cause and will take direction form the Palestinian people as to how I can best show that what that means is real to me and my social, cultural, economic and political ethics”
    • Emma Rosenthal Performing in that concert is NOT a neutral act. It is an act of endorsement and complicity. It will be received that way by both Palestinians and by the Israeli government. The only neutral act is to withdraw from the concert with an ambiguous statement or an excuse (a family emergency, a busy schedule, something came up.) If one wants to act in support of justice, one boycotts and says one is boycotting. Performing and then claiming to support Palestinians will not be well received, will not translate as support, not to the Israelis nor to the Palestinians
    • Muffy Sunde “nuance” Yuck! That’s my comment
    • Emma Rosenthal ” The Ramallah date was added later, allegedly in response to pro-Palestinian campaigners who had tried to dissuade Cohen from appearing in Israel.

      Now his Palestinian hosts have cancelled the West Bank concert, amid claims that the planned gig was a hollow attempt to “balance” performances.

      “Ramallah will not receive Cohen as long as he is intent on whitewashing Israel’s colonial apartheid regime by performing in Israel,” the Palestinian Campaign for the Academic and Cultural Boycott of Israel (PACBI) said in a statement.”

      http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/2009/jul/14/leonard-cohen-ramallah-gig-cancelled

      www.guardian.co.uk

      Palestinian hosts call off Canadian singer’s gig amid claims it was a hollow attempt to ‘balance’ Tel Aviv performance
    • Rima Najjar In 2006, Pink Floyd’s Roger Waters, responding to pressure from [BDS] campaigners, moved a performance from Tel Aviv to the Arab-Jewish peace village, Neve Shalom/Wahat al-Salam. A few weeks ago, documentary filmmakers, the Yes Men, pulled their latest release from the Jerusalem film festival, “in solidarity with the boycott”
    • Muffy Sunde To Stanley Jordan. Your references to “nuance” brought up disturbing recollections of the anti apartheid boycott of South Africa, where musicians and other artists would break that boycott while proclaiming support for the struggle, and complaining that it was “too complicated” to take sides when there were different demands circulating on how to stop apartheid. Only you can decide what you will do, but please don’t patronize us in the movement by referring to “complications” or “nuances” that really aren’t there. The principled thing to do is solidarity, and it is that simple, and that difficult. A boycott is a picket line, a line in the sand, you honor it or not, it is up to you.
    • Janet Green The strongest statement that you can make against the ongoing dispossession of the Palestinian people is simply not to perform in Israel. This is the form of non-violent solidarity that international artists have been asked for by Palestinian civil society and respecting their call sends a strong message to the Israeli government. If you believe that Israel must recognise the right of Palestinians to live normal lives with equality then please reconsider your decision to play.
    • J Kēhaulani Kauanui Robin D. G. Kelley on Palestine and the BDS movement:
      http://mondoweiss.net/2012/02/a-level-of-racist-violence-i-have-never-seen-ucla-professor-robin-d-g-kelley-on-palestine-and-the-bds-movement.html

      mondoweiss.net

      UCLA professor Robin D.G. Kelley just returned from a delegation to Israel/Palestine with the U.S. Campaign for the Academic and Cultural Boycott of Israel and speaks to Mondoweiss about Palestine, BDS, black Zionism and much more.
    • Zoë Lawlor Angela Davis on solidarity with Palestine: “We here in the U.S. should be especially conscious of the similarities between historical Jim Crow practices and contemporary regimes of segregation in Occupied Palestine. If we have learned the most important lesson promulgated by Dr. Martin Luther King — that justice is always indivisible — it should be clear that a mass movement in solidarity with Palestinian freedom is long overdue.”
      It has all been said Stanley and now it is up to you to make a decision and I really hope you make the right one. As has been said repeatedly above, it’s a picket line and if you cross it, it’s crossed – it’s not either or. Solidarity means real and sincere action, you have the capacity for this.
    • Adie Nistelrooy Hi Stanley. Some voices here from those Palestinians kept in a open air prison in the Gaza Strip, over half the 1.6 million population children, surrounded by all of the Israeli regime’s artillery everyday of their lives. And why? because they are Palestinian. And two thirds of them are UN registered refugees, they or their descendents forced out of their homes violently by the current or the nascent Israeli army. 41 Palestinian children in Gaza have been killed by the Israeli forces in the past month and a half. If you go some of those you will be performing for will be serving right now in the army committing offence after offence, crime after crime against these children. Below is a message from Palestinian Students talking about their right to education deprived at every turn. And talking about why South Africa is leading the way in applying the boycott strategy to Israel who have never stopped their occupation but worsened it, never stopped their ethnic cleansing but increased it, and have never stopped their system of racism but entrenched it, with the siege on Gaza, and more and more settlement at the expense of the undesired, ‘ethnic group’ for the region. If the Palestinians themselves won´t convince you to act while governments do not (just like initially for South African Apartheid) then the man they quote, Anti Apartheid hero Archbishop Desmond Tutu, I hope will convince you. Archbishop Tutu has called for all musicians to boycott the Israeli Apartheid Regime and said that a South African Opera group ‘Cape Town Opera’ performing in Israel would be ‘unconsciable’. If you spoke to him you would not go, and if you saw why so many South Africans who have visited Palestinians under Israeli rule have backed the Palestinian BDS call you also would not go. Don’t have this blemish on your record, the oppression taking place is too bad. Stand on the right side of history, as so many courageously did in the case of South Africa, whether its a cancellation of a gig or a refusal to go. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VjFx9PEqz2E&feature=youtu.be

    • Elise Hendrick Since it seems we are expressing conclusions, I will add mine, whilst seconding everything said by Emma, Tom, Karen, Sylvia, Rima, Zoe, and J Kehaulani Kauanui. 

      First of all, I would like to say, Stanley, that I appreciate the sincerity with which you’ve approached this discussion. I’ve been in a few discussions of this sort, and – I don’t know whether it will surprise you to hear this or not – that level of sincerity has not always been the norm. 

      Second of all, I do understand the difficulties backing out of an existing contract presents for you. As you have pointed out, there’s a difference between turning down a gig in the first place and cancelling after you have already agreed to do it. As has already been noted more than one in this thread, other artists have actually done this (to name just one more, Paul Robeson famously cancelled a gig at a segregated venue ONCE HE WAS ALREADY ON STAGE, announcing that he would no longer play any any house where he wouldn’t be allowed to sit in the audience), and it is certainly – because of those difficulties – a stronger statement than simply not agreeing to the gig in the first place, but I do know that those difficulties are real. 

      Third of all, I would like to reiterate what has already been said about playing Israel vs a Palestinian venue: It is an either-or proposition. Palestinians who would otherwise gladly go to see you, and arrange venues for you, will not do so if you cross this picket line. A substantial segment of the Palestinian arts community – and the Palestinian community as a whole – supports this boycott, and would at best be extremely unlikely to want to work with an artist who has not honoured it.

      In the end, no one can force you to go one way or the other. This is your decision, and we can only hope that you decide – despite the difficulties presented by your contract – to take the path of solidarity with the Palestinians in their boycott appeal. As has already been noted, there is more than one way to back out at this late date.

      Obviously, a clear statement (along the lines of Elvis Costello’s excellent statement) would be the best option from the standpoint of solidarity with the Palestinians, but if you do not feel that you could at this point expressly justify your absence by reference to the boycott, you could always make a more ambiguous statement. Indeed, there might even be some language in your contract that you could use to shape such a statement. If you are concerned with finding the right language, I’m sure any of us would be happy to help you come up with a statement that would do the trick. 

      If you do go, please bear in mind that – no matter what your intentions – your crossing of this picket line will be used by the supporters of the racist Israeli regime as “proof” that there’s nothing wrong, and that you personally support the regime. In Israel, ALL culture is propaganda. It always serves the purpose of showing that, far from being a nightmarishly violent, racist society, Israel is in fact a lovely, open, free, and diverse society. I know I mentioned this before, and I know that you heard it then, since you responded directly to me, but the point can’t be emphasised enough: there is no neutral way to take this gig, no matter what “precautions” you take and no matter how good your intentions are. 

      If, on the other hand, you cancel – one way or another – you may be on the wrong side of your contract, but being on the right side of history might well make up for that in the long run.
    • Matt Graber Stanley, thank you so much for opening up a critical discussion of your performance at the Israeli Red Sea Jazz Festival.

      The comments, criticisms, and discussion have been rich and eloquent. I wanted to highlight a few points that have been brought up, and make a couple of suggestions, if I may.

      First, the boycott of Israel is a part of the largest civil disobedience campaign in the world right now, which is that being led by Palestinians for justice and equality. The ANC party of South Africa has endorsed the boycott as their official policy; student unions in South Africa and throughout Europe have endorsed the boycott; and the topic is being brought to the fore in discussions in the United States. Yet our US government continues to give over $3.5 billion in military aid to Israel every year. An integral part of changing the culture of complicity in the United States is for artists and academics to do what they can, and boycott the state of Israel.

      And I want to highlight that this is a boycott of the Red Sea Jazz Festival because it is sponsored by the state. Which would then mean that, by contract, you and your performance would be employed by the state of Israel. I think that if you were to contact Israeli and Palestinian organizers, a trip to play in an anti-occupation space would be welcome and encouraged, whether that be inside of “Israel” – the land from which Palestinians were expelled in 1948 – or in Gaza or the West Bank.

      I also want to point out the historical point at which we are today. Last month, the state of Israel bombed Gaza in an eight-day campaign that killed over 170 Palestinians, and inflicted over $1 billion in damages to critical infrastructure such as electricity, water supply, housing, schools, and mosques. Yesterday also marked the four year anniversary of the beginning of Israel’s Operation Cast Lead, the three-week invasion of Gaza that killed over 1400 Palestinians.

      There have been no prosecutions of war crimes committed in either case, despite significant evidence. Furthermore, the testimonies which I have read from Israeli soldiers who participated in Operation Cast Lead are absolutely horrifying. If you want to hear some of that reality, I recommend the Israeli organization “Breaking the Silence”. Or consider reaching out to any of the over 1.7 million Palestinians living in Gaza, which has been described by former British Prime Minister David Cameron as the world’s largest open-air prison, as it has been under Israeli blockade since 2006.

      Also, I said that the BDS campaign is a part of the world’s largest civil disobedience campaign because the hunger strikes of Palestinians inside of Israeli prisons is also a significant and historical component of the civil disobedience campaign for Palestinians to have dignity and equality. Today, December 28, Samer Issawi is on his 154th day of hunger strike inside of Israeli prison. He has been charged with no crime, being held under the Israeli occupation law of Administrative Detention. This is the longest hunger strike in the history of the world, and he is in grave danger of dying. The Israeli authorities have tried to coerce him to end the hunger strike, and have refused him his medicines. There are other Palestinians also on hunger strike, having gone weeks without eating for recognition of their legal rights under international law. Further, Samer’s mother is having grave difficulty eating while her son starves to death.

      Finally, on the notion of Israel being a Jewish state. What this means, according to the Basic Law of Israeli Lands, which was passed in the Israeli parliament in 1960, is that the lands of Israel (property is nationalized, then leased to residents) are “held in perpetuity for the benefit of the Jewish people.” Functionally, this means that 94% of the land of Israel is for Jews only, and Palestinians, who compose 20% of the population of Israel, live on 6% of the land. Again, this is the land taken by the Jewish Agency and Jewish militias in 1948, and does not include the Jewish settlements of the West Bank (also for Jews only). I use the term Jew here not to suggest a religious identity, but in the formulation that Israeli law uses it, which is that one must be related to Jews, as an ethnic identity.

      With all of this said, Stanley, please don’t play in the Red Sea Jazz Festival. Please encourage other artists to join you in boycotting it, and stand with Palestinians. I encourage you to reach out to the Palestinian and Israeli organizations who are working for justice and equality in the historic land of Palestine, such as Palestinians for the Academic and Cultural Boycott of Israel (PACBI.org).
    • Matt Graber If you would share this article, your thousands of followers would be privy to information which American mainstream media has denied us.http://mondoweiss.net/2012/12/issawi-palestinian-strikers.html

      mondoweiss.net

      Malaka Mohammed talks with Samer Issawi’s family after he has been on hunger strike for 152 days. Mohammed also gives updates on other Palestinian hunger strikers Jafar Azzidine, Tarek Qa’adan, and Yousef Yassin.
    • Palestinian Campaign for the Academic and Cultural Boycott of Israel Dear Stanley Jordan, 
      Much has already been said but we just want to officially add our voice from the Palestinian Campaign for the Academic and Cultural Boycott of Israel (PACBI) and appeal to you to cancel your show. We represent an overwhelming majority of Palestinian civil society and hope that you will hear us, voices from Palestine, rather than take your lead from what Israelis might tell you. We are calling for the world to boycott Israel as a nonviolent and morally consistent form of resistance. Performing or showcasing music and art cannot be divorced from the politics of the world we live in. We hope that you will heed our call rather than do your own thing. We ask that you take the time to read the statement attached as it should clarify some of our positions. Should you have any questions please feel free to write us at pacbi@pacbi.org 
      http://pacbi.org/etemplate.php?id=1582

      pacbi.org

      As the cultural boycott of Israel gains pace around the world, some artists, writers and cultural workers are finding it increasingly difficult to engage consistently and coherently with the arguments posed by those advocating for boycott, divestment and sanctions (BDS). Insisting on performing musi…
    • Sylvia Posadas Stanley Jordan says: ‘That said, the reason I thought of this analogy is that cancelling my show in Israel can be likened to a kind of behavioral music therapy, because the music is used as reinforcement. This framing helped me to understand the purpose and intended effect of the boycott. Now if we add to this your frame of the Jewish Israelis as the abuser and the indigenous Palestinians as the victim, it seems to me that this would be analogous to the victim asking the therapist to treat the abuser using behavioral music therapy by denying them music, and insisting that no other intervention the therapist may come to devise will be acceptable. Of course these are just analogies, but hopefully you can see why I’m led to consider other possibilities.’

      Stanley, before treatment is appropriate, the abuse must be stopped. Otherwise one is just supporting an ongoing situation of abuse. Boycott, divestment and sanctions is the means chosen by the victims of the abuse to end it. Please support this ethical approach.
    • Margot Salom OK – Just ordered it – I am desperate for answers and fed up with all of the negativity – I have a lot of faith in Michael Lerner. I have abandoned reading the ‘bad news without any answers’ Not to mention the downward spiral in the attitudes of those of us who are onlookers. The trend is scaring me++!!
    • Karen MacRae Well, I don’t know where you are looking Margot but I find the positivity and faith on this thread very inspiring and uplifting. The passion and commitment that pours from all the wonderful people on this thread emboldens me and sparks hope. Without hope, you really have nothing. Did you read all the posts here? Maybe the answers you desperately seek are right in front of you.
    • Patrick Harrison I think you need to cancel your show in Israel and respect the call of Palestinian civil society… better yet, organise a show in Ramallah!
    • Patrick Harrison Read ‘Israel/Palestine: How to end the 1948 War’ by Tanya Reinhart, the
    • Tony Madejczyk Please let YOUR heart lead you………
    • Emma Rosenthal Michael Lerner has made no alliances with Palestinians. His book has some impressive accolades, but not ONE is Palestinian. It would appear that he has little or no faith in Palestinians to direct their own liberation. That’s pretty negative, if you ask me.
    • Tom Pessah Portico Quartet cancels participation in southern Israeli city’s Red Sea Jazz Festival following government’s decision to build new housing units in West Bank settlements

      http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4317601,00.html

      www.ynetnews.com

      Culture, Music: Portico Quartet cancels participation in southern Israeli city’s Red Sea Jazz Festival following government’s decision to build new housing units in West Bank settlements
    • Raymond Deane ‘your frame of the Jewish Israelis as the abuser and the indigenous Palestinians as the victim, it seems to me that this would be analogous to the victim asking the therapist to treat the abuser using behavioral music therapy by denying them music…’
      The problem with this analogy, even though it has its uses, is that it depoliticises the situation. Abusers do what they do because of personal psychological malfunction of one kind or another; Israel persecutes the Palestinians because it hopes that, in the elevated words of General Moshe Dayan, “They will live like dogs and in the end they will give up and leave.” The ultimate aim is the creation of a monstrously armed ghetto-state that is exclusively Jewish. The abuser in the abuser/victim relationship has no such end in view – the abuse is merely an expression of sadism. Of course both sadism and racism are involved in Israel’s persecution of Palestinians, but they are effects rather than causes of Israel’s actions. Those advocating and practising BDS are not seeking to “treat” a psychologically disfunctional person, but to make it clear that even if the US, EU and UN are unwilling to impose sanctions on Israel for its crimes, global civil society will ensure that there are consequences to be faced.
    • Rima Najjar Just to underscore the underlying political (and military) reason for Israel’s persecution of Palestinians that Raymond Dean mentions, here is a link to a pdf document that outlines Israel’s strategy in the 80’s which is unchanged today:

      In his Complete Diaries, Vol. II. p. 711, Theodore Herzl, the founder of Zionism, says that the area of the Jewish State stretches: “From the Brook of Egypt to the Euphrates.” Rabbi Fischmann, member of the Jewish Agency for Palestine, declared in his testimony to the U.N. Special Committee of Enquiry on 9 July 1947: “The Promised Land extends from the River of Egypt up to the Euphrates, it includes parts of Syria and Lebanon.”

      From Oded Yinon’s “A Strategy for Israel in the Nineteen Eighties”
      http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/pdf/The%20Zionist%20Plan%20for%20the%20Middle%20East.pdf
    • Elise Hendrick Raymond: I’m not sure how bringing up the analogy of abusive relationships depoliticises anything. There’s nothing about abusive relationships that isn’t political. They are made possible by a society that rewards abusers, or at the very least makes sure that they don’t have to worry about any significant consequences for their action. They are empowered by a system that gives them institutionalised power over their victims.
    • Emma Rosenthal Abuse is an effort to control– the work, body, ability, agency, value and worth of someone with less social and political power, to begin with. Who abuses is very much linked to who has power in society and hegemonic hierarchies. The analogy is quite valid, in my opinion, with the perpetrator’s power coming from clear social dynamics, and with the humanity, value and sympathy often the property and privilege of the perpetrator. Too often programs to address abuse, focus on “healing” the perpetrator, without addressing the underlying structures and with little regard for the already dismissed humanity of the victim.
    • Emma Rosenthal I don’t want this really exciting, essential and dynamic thread to be derailed by the equally important issue of the politics of abuse, but I don’t want this issue to go unexplored, either, so I’ve started a thread on my own wall, to discuss the politics of abuse– both globally and interpersonally. The personal is political. Please visit and develop that thread, as well as keeping up with this one. https://www.facebook.com/emmarosenthal/posts/4421381687621

      I would like to start a thread on the politics of abuse– globally, locally and in our most intimate relationships: GO!
    • Rima Najjar London-based jazz band Portico Quartet has decided to cancel its participation in the winter edition of the Red Sea Jazz Festival, scheduled to take place in the southern Israeli city of Eilat in January, following the government’s new settlement construction plan.
    • Cameron Keys I think Stanley’s analogy with music therapy would be an elegant and completely unique approach for him to use in explaining to the world why he would be canceling his gig, if that’s what he chose. 

      For my concluding remarks, I just want to clarify some of the positions being taken in this thread.

      The BDS calls for boycotts, divestments, and sanctions until Israel complies FULLY with 3 international demands:

      1. Ending its occupation and colonization of all Arab lands and dismantling the Wall
      2. Recognizing the fundamental rights of the Arab-Palestinian citizens of Israel to full equality; and
      3. Respecting, protecting and promoting the rights of Palestinian refugees to return to their homes and properties as stipulated in UN resolution 194.

      Stanley frankly pointed out his current lack of knowledge about #3.
      UN resolution 194 was passed in December 1944, and a version of it has been drafted every year since then. It is a logical place to start, but it is not a univocal document, despite whatever consensus civil society organizations are able to produce. (read the text yourself:http://unispal.un.org/UNISPAL.NSF/0/C758572B78D1CD0085256BCF0077E51A)

      Article 8 of the resolution calls for “effective United Nations control” through a “permanent international regime” that would literally govern Jerusalem and several of its surrounding villages. 

      Article 11 is worth quoting at length:
      “…the refugees wishing to return to their homes and live at peace with their neighbours should be permitted to do so at the earliest practicable date… compensation should be paid for the property of those choosing not to return and for loss of or damage to property which… should be made good by the Governments or authorities responsible; [and]…Instructs the Conciliation Commission [a three state oversight body] to facilitate the repatriation, resettlement and economic and social rehabilitation of the refugees and the payment of compensation.

      To work out the technical details of Articles 8 and 11, Resolution 194 authorizes the appointment of scientific experts that will determine the financial value of damages and compensation due to refugees, along with the costs of maintaining a just peace in the United Nations-controlled areas of Jerusalem and its surrounding villages. 

      These statements do not strike me as straightforward policy recommendations. I am frankly not surprised that even the Arab states voted against Resolution 194 when it was first passed.

      Thus, when the advocates of BDS in this thread make such persuasive arguments, I cannot move from empathy to full solidarity; nor can I expect or recommend Stanley Jordan to do so.

      unispal.un.org

      Question de Palestine – Rapport du médiateur de l’ONU, Commission de conciliation, Statut de Jérusalem, retour des réfugiés – Résolution de l’AG
    • Karen MacRae Hi Cameron, why did you delete your comments thanking everyone for the clarity they provided to your lack of information on this subject? I also saw you said you were now thinking of visiting Israel and Palestine to see for yourself. Have you rethought that decision?
    • Tom Pessah I think the level of suffering in Palestine is more than enough for anyone to express solidarity, even without fully understanding the issue of the Right of Return. The many links posted above are just the tip of the iceberg. However, for those interested in educating themselves about the RoR, here is a proposal recently drafted by an Israeli and a Palestinian organization for practically resolving it: http://www.badil.org/en/component/k2/item/1687-art7

      www.badil.org

      A report from the BADIL-Zochrot joint actions As the May 15th marches reaffirmed the refugees at the center of the Palestinian struggle and revealed…
    • Rima Najjar Cameron Keys: I thought we have all come to understand that “elegant and completely unique” is not solidarity. But then you are recommending no solidarity or no “full” solidarity. A little solidarity is like being a little pregnant. And, frankly, I waded through your note above and couldn’t make it out. Something re: 194 falling short on a technicality? Here is a really good article on Palestinian refugees and the right of return by Ramzy Baroud: Nakba Revisited: Syria’s Palestinians and the centrality of the right of return

      http://mondoweiss.net/2012/12/revisited-palestinians-centrality.html

      mondoweiss.net

      As long as Israel continues to flout international law, millions of Palestinian refugees will remain captive in regional struggles that use them as political fodder or see them as a demographic problem, or even worse, a threat.
    • Stanley Jordan On Monday I will make a definitive statement in response to requests to join the BDS boycott.
    • Adrian Boutureira Sansberro Thanks Stanley for giving us the opportunity to openly share our collective position with you and your FB friends. Solidaridad, Adrian
    • Evan McHugh McAwesome Please be on the right side of history!
    • Tom Pessah “the idea that a concert in Israel can bring Palestinians and Israelis together is absurd when one considers that millions of Palestinians who live under Israel’s military control are prevented by Israel’s apartheid policies from attending. To clarify, when concerts are held in Israel, Palestinians in the West Bank do not enjoy the same access to them as Jewish settlers living on land confiscated from Palestinians in the West Bank. In fact, even when cultural events take place inside the Occupied Territories, for example in Ramallah, Palestinians in other enclaves and Bantustans within the occupied territories or those who live in Gaza, or Palestinians who hold Israeli citizenships – are often not allowed to attend due to the hundreds of Israeli checkpoints in the Occupied Territories and tricky permit systems, all designed to fragment and control Palestinian society…

      International artists have an ethical responsibility to address this issue of exclusion and discrimination, which is central to the reality of the conflict. The real questions artists need to ask themselves are: Do we want to promote a culture where we feel comfortable performing before an audience that is selected by way of racial privilege? Do we want to engage with Israeli artists who have committed by way of signing a legal contract to whitewash Israel’s system of discrimination and oppression? How can we accept the claim that concerts or cultural events can ‘bring people together’ when these events often work to promote and to support an existing system of discrimination designed to keep the people apart?”

      http://pacbi.org/etemplate.php?id=2080

      www.pacbi.org

      This paper was prepared for the 7arakat Conference: Theatre, Cultural Diversity and Inclusion November  2012 and was first published in the 7arakat conference E:Proceedings. IntroductionInternational artists find themselves standing at a crossroad between their desire to support all forms of artisti…
    • Tom Pessah “Madonna’s peace speech was lost on the Palestinians, who were denied access to her ‘peace concert’ and who remain locked up behind Israel’s high walls and barbed wires.

      More significant is the fact that Madonna’s so called ‘peace concert’, which gave lip service to peace, in fact was successful in promoting tourism in Israel, bringing in 4,000 tourists with some fans paying up to NIS 5,000 for VIP tickets and accommodation packages (Domke and Halutz 2012). So in reality, the concert was great for Israel, its economy, its image and its institutions but did not do much for the cause of working toward creating a real environment for a peace with justice.”

      http://pacbi.org/etemplate.php?id=2080
    • Monique Buckner Hello Stanley. I’m a white South African who was given special privileges because of the colour of my skin during apartheid. It sounds ridiculous that skin colour could ever be a reason to give more rights to some people, or to remove rights from others, but that is how it was in my country while I was a child. Racism is never a rational behaviour.

      Unfortunately, the world is not rid of apartheid- we are witnessing apartheid at work in Israel and the occupied Palestinian territories. If you have any doubt about this claim, let me know and I can provide evidence of these practises that conform to the definition of apartheid. Also, in November 2011, international law experts met in Cape Town for the Russell Tribunal on Palestine to discuss this same issue and after hearing much evidence, concluded that Israel was guilty of this crime against humanity.

      I want to share with you this statement by a black South African anti-apartheid activist on his thoughts about what the boycott meant to his people. His name is Bongani Ngeleza and he was at student at the time of the global boycott, divestment and sanctions movement.

      ”The anti-apartheid organisations and related campaigns gave us a sense that the world was with us and therefore freedom was within reach. The courage to continue even in the face of a regime that was becoming more and more intransigent and murderous was reinforced by the knowledge that sooner or later, the sanctions would squeeze them to a point of collapse. We, as students at universities during the eighties, could then speak more tirelessly and launch regular and more emotive protests against the system and all those that supported it, both inside and outside the country, knowing that the world was watching and that these were telling blows because we saw companies leaving week after week, governments withdrawing diplomatic relations, etc. You can imagine the momentum that this gives to an otherwise difficult, daunting and dangerous struggle against racial oppression.”

      So you see, you may just see yourself as just another artist, but you are actually a candle of hope and a motivator if you hear the Palestinian call for boycott and respect their request. Please read Bongani’s words and remember them when you make your decision on whether or not to boycott. The African National Congress, the black liberation party of South Africa, has officially endorsed boycott, divestment and sanctions as the means to Palestinian liberation. Please join us for universal freedom.

      http://www.greenleft.org.au/node/53062

      www.greenleft.org.au

      For the first time ever, the African National Congress (ANC), the ruling party in South Africa, today made the Palestinian call for boycott, divestment and sanctions (BDS) on Israel part of its official policy.
    • Emma Rosenthal Monique Buckner do you think that an artist, with good will, could have performed in South AFrica to a white audience and made a difference on his or her own, through the power of music? Would a strong message, delivered from the stage have had the same or even a greater impact?
    • Monique Buckner I really doubt that an artist could convince a crowd of racists that they must stop their oppression. I think an artist who defies a peaceful call to boycott would only attract such people to his or her concert… simply because the act of breaking the boycott sides with such people. Playing for a segregated audience is normalising it, even if that artist then tries to state during the concert that the whole set-up is actually unjust. It doesn’t come across as sincere or effective. What I remember is that individual acts of boycott stung and eventually made people question why we were being isolated. Roger Waters tried to give such a lecture from the stage and never tried that one again, in some part because of the audience reaction, I expect, but he realised later how much more effective boycott is.
    • Emma Rosenthal

      Similar regrets expressed by Macy Gray, Denise Jannah, Pete Seegar and Richard Montoya and others.

      note: I’ve edited this comment. Originally I stated that Leonard Cohen had expressed regret for having decided to cross the line. That was incorrect. I was later informed that Denise Jannah had also expressed regret, though. So I’ve edited this comment to reflect accurate information. My apologies. I do not like to be the source of misinformation.
       Edited · Like · 8
    • Raymond Deane The one really simple fact is this: Palestinian civil society has called upon the world to boycott the Israeli state. To disregard this call is to offer the persecuted Palestinians a slap in the face.
    • Matt Graber In situations of abuse, I find it incumbent to speak out and confront the abusers to put an end to the abuse. In the end, no amount of support and care for the abusers can put an end to continued abuse, and the relationship of abuser-abused/oppressor-oppressed must be fundamentally changed.

      Which is why I find the call for a boycott of Israel incredibly inspiring. For over 64 years, Israel has systematically eliminated Palestinians from the land of historic Palestine so as to create a “Jewish” state in the Middle East. Thousands of home demotions, land confiscations, murders, assaults, intimidation, bombings, walls, checkpoints, and violence to eliminate Palestinians from the land. Yet the silence of the international community has created a situation of injustice – so many UN resolutions going unfulfilled because of the position of the US in the UN security council, capable of vetoing any significant sanctions of Israel for such settler-colonial violence.

      Then Palestinian society issues a call – speak out! We have a vision for justice and equality – speak out on the vision, and help us to fulfill this vision of justice and equality.

      And yet, in 2005, the Israeli government launched a propaganda campaign known as “Brand Israel”, in an effort to brand the state of Israel as a modern, European, technologically advanced society with strong cultural values, rather than a settler-colonial state engaged in the systematic elimination of Palestinians.

      An article in the Israeli daily Haaretz in 2008 revealed a contract between artists and the Israeli Foreign Ministry for Israeli artists traveling abroad. The Foreign Ministry agreed to pay all of the travel expenses for the artists, and in exchange the artists agreed “to promote the policy interests of the State of Israel via culture and art, including contributing to creating a positive image for Israel.”

      Yet such an image belies the truth of the matter. When Israel is bombing, murdering, and destroying homes, how can artists sign on to such a contractual agreement?

      Now, I don’t know about the details of your contract with the Red Sea Jazz Festival, which is sponsored by the Israeli Ministry of Culture and Sport, but have the details called for you to portray Israel in such a way? By performing in the Red Sea Jazz Festival, you’re agreeing to become a tool of propaganda for the state of Israel – to deter and distract from the truth.

      For me personally, I am incredibly hopeful for the future. This week, tens of thousands of Iraqis have mobilized to overthrow the US-installed Malaki government, which has been complicit in international corporations’ theft of Iraqi natural resources. Native Indians under the rule of the United States and Canada have mobilized in the Idle No More movement to recognize the dignity of indigenous peoples, and the necessity to put a stop to corporate theft and destruction of our planet. The Tar Sands Blockade has also stood up to the US government’s theft of indigenous lands, and the destruction of our planet. Workers from South America to the United States to Bangladesh are mobilizing to demand respect for workers against the abuses of the world’s largest corporation – Walmart. Thousands of people recognize that We Can End AIDS!! A movement to END SLAVERY AND MASS INCARCERATION in the United States has taken hold, from the work of Angela Davis and Critical Resistance to the work of Decarcerate PA in my hometown of Philadelphia. The people of the Middle East from Syria to Egypt to Bahrain, Jordan, Kuwait, Yemen, Saudi Arabia and Palestine are rising up and demanding life and dignity under the crush of neoliberal capitalism and US-supported settler colonialism.

      To all of this, I say a resounding YES! This is what this world needs! We can transform our society from a culture of violence to a culture of care!

      I hope you will join the Palestinian movement for justice and equality, speak loudly against the violent settler-colonialism of the state of Israel, and help us find a new path forward.

      I wish you well, Stanley. Hope you’ve had a wonderful day.

      Warmly,
      Matt
    • Matt Graber “The service provider undertakes to act faithfully, responsibly and tirelessly to provide the Ministry with the highest professional services. The service provider is aware that the purpose of ordering services from him is to promote the policy interests of the State of Israel via culture and art, including contributing to creating a positive image for Israel.”

      http://www.haaretz.com/putting-out-a-contract-on-art-1.250388
    • Matt Graber The most detailed account of the Brand Israel propaganda campaign has been provided by author and activist Sarah Schulman. In an article in the New York Times, which was expounded upon on Mondoweiss.net and the Huffington Post, she detailed how the Israeli government has appropriated queer voices in the Brand Israel campaign – http://www.huffingtonpost.com/sarah-schulman/israel-pinkwashing_b_1132369.html

      www.huffingtonpost.com

      Pinkwashing is the cynical use of queer people’s hard-won gains by the Israeli government in an attempt to rebrand themselves as progressive, while continuing to violate international law and the human rights of Palestinians.
    • Rima Najjar Dear Stanley Jordan:

      It’s 4:15 a.m. Eastern Time in the U.S. – still too early for your Sunday to begin, but my Sunday is well on its way here in Abu Dis, and I am obsessively checking your page for your announcement. I know you have probably made up your mind by now, and what I write here would not make any difference, but for the record (and also to calm my nerves), I would like to add something to what @Matt Graber has written.

      An important tenet of the “Brand Israel” campaign is not only to promote its own so-called cultural values, but also to stifle Palestinian culture from reaching the outside world. For example, after the publication of an acclaimed translation of Palestinian poet Ghassan Zaqtan’s tenth collection Like a Straw Bird It Follows Me by Fady Joudah in September of 2012, Yale University press arranged for a tour of several U.S. cities for the author and his translator. The U.S. embassy (which works in tandem with Israel on such matters) delayed the issuing of a visa for the Palestinian author, causing him to miss his planned tour and causing ACLU and PEN to complain to the State Department Legal Advisor Harold Koh on the grounds of “ideological exclusion”. 

      Another example of this deliberate Israeli cultural isolation of Palestinians can be seen in what the Palestine Festival of Literature — PalFest routinely experiences. Established in 2008, PalFest arranges for authors and artists working in English to visit Palestine and take part in literary activities alongside their Palestinian colleagues. Year after year, the group has faced shut downs in Jerusalem by armed Israeli police, forcing the organizers to shift venue at the last minute. This year was the first year the Festival was able to get through the siege of Gaza – not without incident.

      Waiting for your announcement and, again, thank you for allowing this conversation.
      20 hours ago · Edited · Unlike · 12
    • Andy Griggs Wow, what an amazing thread! Stanley-thank you for your openness and the opportunity to hold this discussion. Wanted to add my name again, to those who hope you decide not to go – and pledging support to any efforts beyond that refusal that you make to creatively add your voice and music to a growing slate of artists who say YES to human rights for all!
      16 hours ago · Edited · Unlike · 12
    • Tali Shapiro I’ve read the conversation and admit I have little to add at this point (especially since Emma passed my articles), so I hope not to be repettative. I can add the fact that I’m a citizen of Israel and I also ask you Stanley Jordan to cancel your performance in Israel. I’m not the only citizen of Israel who believes that BDS is the tactic that forwards Palestinian liberation (http://www.boycottisrael.info/node/2/signatures), but we are few. The reason we are few is because the apartheid is so successful that the whopping majority of Israel’s citizens couldn’t care less about Arab people. The whopping majority support “transfer” of the remaining Arab people (whom they don’t acknowledge as part of the Palestinian people, or the existence of a Palestinian people). The majority have no idea that this colony called Israel was named a state, based on the ethnic cleansing and mass massacres of the indigenous Palestinian population and that it continues to expand with similar and new methods.

      I’d also like to point out the most basic concept behind BDS with a simple analogy. If I need to buy some shoes and I know that NIKE is using children in sweatshops, then I’d feel pretty nasty about buying these shoes. Now, if I were Michael Jordan, in this scenario, I’d probably drop my NIKE contract. That would be an escalation in the campaign, which would help pressure NIKE in addition to a wide consumer boycott. So back to our topic, the Red Sea Jazz Fest is kinda like NIKE. It’s a brand name painted all pretty and seemingly has no connection to abuse of a whole population and the whitewashing of it (excuse the reposting, it’s specifically relevant to you, I believe http://pulsemedia.org/2012/12/25/israel-2012-the-question-of-a-nation-what-does-culture-have-to-do-with-politics-part-2/ ). So just like NIKE is just one company, the festival is just one brand name event, which you happen to be involved in, Stanley. No one is asking you to make a choice about the whole mechanism of ethnic cleansing, apartheid and military occupation. Just about participation in this one event. 

      I understand, from what you’ve written here, that you want to use your special talents to do something constructive. I totally get that, but I want to say something that may come out harsh, I hope I manage to remain compassionate to where you’re coming from, and that you understand where I’m coming from. I appreciate your talent. I love the music you create and I’m sure your music brings joy. However, Palestinian conversation about this topic has spotted how speaking of healing has become a way to sidestep dealing directly and honestly with the reality of their situation. A situation of ethnic cleansing (that’s genocide by means of expulsion), that is being covered up in the most racist of ways: “Look at Israel’s technology, we’re a light on to nations.” Not only is the state diverting attention from it’s ethnic cleansing, it’s doing it by means of naming themselves “civilized”, while the only narrative allotted to Palestinians is that of “primitive” and “terrorist” (“terrorist” is used in the face of all and any form of resistance, including BDS). Because of the wide acceptance of this narrative, which both describes Palestinians as sub-creatures and also disallows any form rising above this narrative, little choice is left to Palestinians, so their choice (through civil society organizing) is not to “be healed” and “build bridges to” by outside artists, who have little understanding of their dire situation, but to relinquish the healing session, and ask for respectful silence. So we can bring up the fact that Palestinians under an apartheid system won’t be able to come see you perform in the Jazz fest (http://pulsemedia.org/2012/07/01/the-red-hot-chili-peppers-and-the-story-of-the-wiping-out-of-the-indigenous-people-of-a-land-formerly-known-as-falastin/), but really that isn’t the point. the point is, that this apartheid system is a reality of theft of land, limitation of movement, constant surveillance, constant presence of a hostile army (often times on the roof of your house), nightly kidnappings by armed and masked soldiers, arbitrary arrests, torture, hunger strikes unanswered, a fabricated legal system specifically for one race/religion, a limitation of access to water, hospitals, and other very basic services, and of course death by getting shot by an armed soldier with a happy trigger finger. This is why Palestinians are asking for you NOT to use your talents. If you want to perform somewhere in the occupied territories that’s great, but it’s really not critical for Palestinians (though I’m sure it would be a positive and memorable experience for many). The only way Palestinians would object to this very nice idea is if you also performed as part of the mechanisms that hold them under oppression. I hope I wasn’t disrespectful at any point. thanks for considering. I’m looking forward to your statement on Monday.
      16 hours ago · Edited · Unlike · 16
    • Emma Rosenthal ” Palestinian conversation about this topic has spotted how speaking of healing has become a way to sidestep dealing directly and honestly with the reality of their situation. ” – Tali Shapiro — EXACTLY!!!!
      17 hours ago · Like · 11
    • Stanley Jordan Referring to the talk here about healing: As a student of music therapy, I am very tuned in to the importance of health and healing, and I often use it as a frame for understanding things. I’m not trying to use it to sidestep the issue–I’m trying to use it understand the issue more deeply in terms that I can relate to. I feel that it is an apt metaphor for what is needed to solve this crisis. In fact, it seems to me that peace = healing on a global scale.
    • Stanley Jordan Does the BDS movement clearly and categorically disavow violence? I ask because comparisons have been made here to other resistance movements lead by Mahatma Gandhi, Rosa Parks and Martin Luther King, Jr.—and these movements were expressly nonviolent, which gave them moral authority. Thanks in advance for replies.
    • Stanley Jordan Monique, you said, “I really doubt that an artist could convince a crowd of racists that they must stop their oppression.” You make a good point and I agree with you, but I think we’re talking apples and oranges. Issues concerning the Israeli state and the boycott movement belong to the objective, “exterior” dimension, and the world of all things tangible. My music is orthogonal to that space. My music goes to the heart of the subjective, interior dimension, and the world of all things spiritual. It is intended to touch hearts and souls and change lives from the inside out. I then leave it up to the people to decide what to do with the inspiration. I trust humanity, and I feel that the fully empowered human—empowered on all levels (“cooking on all burners” as Jean Houston would say) —will always make the best decision available to them. In reality I can’t even guarantee that I’ll succeed in the inner space, let alone the outer. But if I do manage to achieve my goal in the inner space, my concert has already succeeded on its own terms.
      Now of course I would always hope I can influence humans to be more humane—wherever I play. But I leave it up to the them to decide for themselves how to use the inspiration because that’s a decision only they can make. 
      Note also that BDS is in a similar position—at best it will succeed by indirect effect. And this is not at all a charge against it—just an observation. BDS aims at creating exterior pressure on Israelis, which it then hopes will lead to an interior change on their part (a change of heart), which would then lead them to change their (external) policies. So it does not directly accomplish its goal. In fact, BDS is focused on Israelis, and as such, it does not directly benefit Palestinians—certainly not in the way that a positive, targeted movement such as a “Buy Palestinian” campaign would do.
    • Zoë Lawlor Stanley, with all due respect, you have had a lot of time to read up on this and have had great input on this thread but to say that “BDS does not directly benefit Palestinians”, frankly is shocking. It is a call from Palestinian civil society, it is what the Palestinians see as their best chance to resist occupation and apartheid. Do you think that they can touch souls within a state apartheid structure from behind walls and under siege? 
      I can tell you something, the Palestinian people have touched the hearts and souls of millions of people around the world who identify with them in their struggle against oppression and who are inspired by their incredible sumoud – their steadfastness. 
      Re non-violence – NOT that it is up to anyone to dictate how people resist, this is from the BDS call: “Inspired by the struggle of South Africans against apartheid and in the spirit of international solidarity, moral consistency and resistance to injustice and oppression;

      We, representatives of Palestinian civil society, call upon international civil society organizations and people of conscience all over the world to impose broad boycotts and implement divestment initiatives against Israel similar to those applied to South Africa in the apartheid era. We appeal to you to pressure your respective states to impose embargoes and sanctions against Israel. We also invite conscientious Israelis to support this Call, for the sake of justice and genuine peace.

      These non-violent punitive measures should be maintained until Israel meets its obligation to recognize the Palestinian people’s inalienable right to self-determination and fully complies with the precepts of international law by:

      1. Ending its occupation and colonization of all Arab lands and dismantling the Wall
      2. Recognizing the fundamental rights of the Arab-Palestinian citizens of Israel to full equality; and
      3. Respecting, protecting and promoting the rights of Palestinian refugees to return to their homes and properties as stipulated in UN resolution 194.”
      7 hours ago · Edited · Unlike · 10
    • Emma Rosenthal Does the Israeli government disavow violence? It seems an odd question, inlight of the Israeli government’s devotion to violence. I would also remind you that Nelson Mandela spent 27 years in prison specifically because he refused to denounce violence, because the ANC repeatedly insisted that they had a right to defend themselves against a brutal regime. BDS is a specifically non-violent movement, but I would ask those who raise this issue, if violence is wrong, and if Israel is righteous, why it doesn’t demonstrate non-violence, and use non-violent methods, at the very least, when dealing with nonviolent activists, demonstrations, civilian populations. Until those who perpetrate violence (we’re back to the abuser/abused paradigm, where a different moral standard is applied to the victim than to the perpetrator) denounce violence, we have no right to demand non-violence of the victim. 

      BUT for those who do demand that those under brutal military occupation and oppression, subjected to violent arrest, detention without charges, exjudicial execution, attacks against civilian populations, destruction and seizure of homes and property, a wall that cuts people off from food, water, work, farmlands, practice nonviolence, it seems like a rather outrageous, opportune and dishonest demand, and one who is in support of social justice would be wise to demand of either neither or both sides.
      7 hours ago · Like · 9
    • Emma Rosenthal While there is a buy Palestinian campaign (seehttps://www.facebook.com/pages/Palestine-Online-Store/165302270174901?fref=ts

      Palestine Online Store, launched in December 2003, is an activist project striving to make Palestine-related materials more widely available. While the focus is on informational resources, other products such as apparel, handcrafts, and solidarity items are also featured. Informational/educational…
      Page: 1,418 like this
    • Emma Rosenthal But until Palestinians have control of their borders and control of their fields, their fishing waters, their resources, assisting the Palestinian economy is moot, when everything that is built up can be destroyed in days by the Israeli military, which has NOT denounced violence, at all.
      7 hours ago · Like · 11
    • Zoë Lawlor Stanley, as someone attuned to the importance of health and healing, you might like to think about Israel’s violence on the physical and psychological health of the Palestinian people. The children of Gaza suffer from trauma, hospitals have been attacked, EMT personnel are regularly targeted, people are prevented from receiving the medical treatment they need, pregnant women have died at checkpoints – I could go on… But you have been made aware of this, by playing you will NOT be contributing anything positive to the Palestinian people at all.
      6 hours ago · Edited · Unlike · 8
    • Andy Griggs Stanley, BDS comes from all sectors of civil society. I would imagine that some do and some do not denounce violence. The Israeli military, though, and Israeli civil society has not denounced violence, and as has been pointed out, are the ones in power, are the abusers. 

      To demand that all sectors of Palestinian society denounce violence is to hold Palestinian liberation struggles to a standard we NEVER held any other group with whom we were in solidarity. We may have insisted our own actions be non-violent, which BDS affords us– a non-violent means of supporting Palestinian liberation, but we never demanded that all sectors of an oppressed society denounce violence– not in Vietnam, not in Southern Africa, not in Central America. In fact, we couldn’t even demand that of or provide it from our own movements. Would it be legitimate to oppose the civil rights movement or the anti-war movement and its calls for justice, because some sectors used violence to assert their positions?
    • Matt Graber Stanley Jordan, you wrote “at best [BDS] will succeed by indirect effect. And this is not at all a charge against it—just an observation. BDS aims at creating exterior pressure on Israelis, which it then hopes will lead to an interior change on their part (a change of heart), which would then lead them to change their (external) policies”

      This is incorrect. BDS is specifically targeted to the State of Israel, and the institutions which the State supports. As many people have suggested, you are encouraged and welcome to bring music to Israelis and Palestinians. We do not have an issue with that. We are calling on you to boycott the Red Sea Jazz Festival because it is sponsored by the Israeli Ministry of Culture and Sport and several other Israeli STATE institutions. By signing contracts with these institutions, you are contractually agreeing to serve their interests, and you will be used as a tool of propaganda.

      In addition to the academic and cultural boycott of Israel, a huge component of BDS is the economic activities of boycotts, divestment, and sanctions. These actions are specifically targeted to the STATE of Israel, and call for people, organizations, businesses, stock holders, and other states to STOP funding the State of Israel until Israel complies with the demands of the BDS movement.

      As I previously stated, taxpayers of the United States give the state of Israel over $3.5 billion every year for exclusive military uses. This means that the brutal military occupation and ethnic cleansing of Palestine is directly funded and supported by US taxpayers. Those who are a part of the BDS movement believe that until the goals of BDS are met and Israel complies with international law, there should be NO SUPPORT FOR APARTHEID ISRAEL.
      6 hours ago · Edited · Unlike · 8
    • Matt Graber Stanley Jordan, on the question of non-violence:

      BDS is a non-violent tactic endorsed by Palestinian civil society to advance justice and equality. Those who have endorsed BDS come from an incredibly broad swath within Palestinian civil society, Palestinian refugees, and those in solidarity with them. To support BDS is to explicitly support non-violence as a means of ending the 65-year ethnic cleansing of Palestine. To ask if those who support BDS disavow violence is to engage in a conversation about all tactics, which we are not speaking about here. For me personally, as an American citizen in solidarity with Palestinians, it is not my place to advocate one tactic over another.

      To make an analogy: we are asking you to not get on the bus in Montgomery, Alabama. Was it a matter of concern as to the stance regarding armed resistance for those who endorsed the Montgomery bus boycott, BDS in South Africa, the Salt Satyagraha in India, or the California grape boycott?
      6 hours ago · Edited · Unlike · 9
    • J Kēhaulani Kauanui @Stanley Jordan, who asks: “Does the BDS movement clearly and categorically disavow violence?”

      I’m surprised and somewhat disconcerted by this query because it suggests that the informative posts delineated here, which pro-BDS folk pouring their hearts and energies into, have not necessarily been read either carefully or in their entirety.

      BDS (Boycott, Divest, and Sanction) is a non-violent means of pressuring Israel to comply with international law. 

      The entirety of Palestinian civil society has called for BDS. That means THEY have decided that that’s what they need from the rest of the world: that we heed *their* call to boycott, divest, and sanction Israel.

      The Palestinian Campaign for the Academic and Cultural Boycott (PACBI) is the organizing center for the cultural boycott we are now asking you to honor.

      I serve on the advisory board of the US Campaign for the Academic and Cultural Boycott (USACBI), which interfaces with PACBI. Someone from PACBI already posted above to ask you to respect the boycott AND added a resource link that has all the information anyone in your position should need to heed the call of conscience.

      Here’s the background on PACBI taken from its website, which gets at the issue of non-violence. I want to call your attention to the 4th sentence: “The BDS movement adopts a nonviolent, morally consistent strategy to hold Israel accountable to the same human rights standards as other nations.”

      “In 2004, inspired by the triumphant cultural boycott of apartheid South Africa, and supported by key Palestinian unions and cultural groups, PACBI issued a call for the academic and cultural boycott of institutions involved in Israel’s occupation and apartheid. The 2004 Palestinian call appealed to international artists to refuse to perform in Israel or participate in events that serve to equate the occupier and the occupied and thus contribute to the continuation of injustice. Following this, in 2005, an overwhelming majority in Palestinian civil society called for an all-encompassing BDS campaign based on the principles of human rights, justice, freedom and equality. The BDS movement adopts a nonviolent, morally consistent strategy to hold Israel accountable to the same human rights standards as other nations. It is asking artists to heed the boycott call until “Israel withdraws from all the lands occupied in 1967, including East Jerusalem; removes all its colonies in those lands; agrees to United Nations resolutions relevant to the restitution of Palestinian refugees rights; and dismantles its system of apartheid.”

      Now, I trust that you are not – cannot possibly (in good faith) be – asking if the entirety of Palestinian civil society has committed itself to non-violence.
      6 hours ago · Edited · Unlike · 9
    • Karen MacRae Stanley, I understand that you feel music will heal this thing but with all due respect, all musicians we ask not to play say the same thing and still the occupation, the brutality, the apartheid drags on. You can’t heal without justice first. And if a part of the population can’t even listen to the healing music, what is the point of playing? Who are you aiming your music at exactly?
      5 hours ago · Edited · Unlike · 9
    • Karen MacRae Stanley, who told you this? “BDS aims at creating exterior pressure on Israelis, which it then hopes will lead to an interior change on their part (a change of heart), which would then lead them to change their (external) policies. So it does not directly accomplish its goal. In fact, BDS is focused on Israelis, and as such, it does not directly benefit Palestinians—certainly not in the way that a positive, targeted movement such as a “Buy Palestinian” campaign would do.”
      6 hours ago · Unlike · 7
    • Emma Rosenthal “Now, I trust that you are not – cannot possibly (in good faith) be – asking if the entirety of Palestinian civil society has committed itself to non-violence.” -yes!! that would be entirely unfair, especially since almost all of Israeli society has committed itself TO violence.
      6 hours ago · Like · 8
    • Sam Playle Regarding nonviolence, I’d echo what people have already said, the BDS movement itself is completely nonviolent. However, the movement doesn’t explicitly condemn the armed resistance. I think this is unrealistic because in practical terms it would be very divisive, but it would be like expecting Palestinians to accept the indignity of disavowing their right to defend themselves (even if that right is effectively only symbolic at this stage). 

      Perhaps it seems admirable the way Gandhi’s followers went peacefully and got their skulls broken, but it wouldn’t be right to demand from our position of comfort and privilege that an oppressed people hold themselves to much stricter standards than most of us would be prepared to. I would fully support the Palestinians if they decided to follow a completely nonviolent strategy, but that has to be a Palestinian decision, not a decision imposed from outside as a precondition for supporting them getting basic rights that we all take for granted.

      Besides all that, if we’re going to criticize the Palestinians for using violence, then it’s essential we give concrete support to nonviolent Palestinian strategies, of which BDS is a shining example. If the Palestinians try to use this nonviolent strategy but see that the world ignores it, and holds them to hypocritically high standards, then we would all have to share some of the responsibility if large sections of the Palestinian population gives up its hopes in nonviolence.
      6 hours ago · Unlike · 8
    • Karen MacRae Stanley, with respect to the “buy Palestinian” comment, do you not see the irony of zionist logic advocating a ‘buy Palestinian” campaign? Do you not think if the well being of the Palestinians was such a massive concern they would be willing to condemn the occupation and apartheid, which is the main source of Palestinian suffering?
      6 hours ago · Unlike · 8
    • Matt Graber Thank goodness for those who refuse to serve in the Israeli military. Though they are so few.
      6 hours ago · Edited · Unlike · 7
    • Karen MacRae Also Stanley, i don’t know where you think removing oneself from oppression is some sort of denial of Israel’s fundamental rights. How is ending illegal military occupation, state imposed apartheid conditions in any way fashion or form, collective punishment on Israelis? About 80 percent of the Israeli economy is benefiting from the illegal settlements built on land in Palestine. If the funding of the settlements ceased then of course it would affect the Israeli economy. The problem is, when the illegal settlements are funded (with YOUR tax dollars I would like to remind you) then collectively the Palestinians are being punished. So if we apply your logic, then to avoid punishing Israelis we must punish Palestinians instead because the Israeli economy would collapse without this funding. ?? I don’t understand this logic. Wouldn’t you rather an human rights based outcome where both peoples benefit instead?
      6 hours ago · Unlike · 8
    • Andy Griggs Stanley – Boycotts are by nature non-violent – As mentioned above we are asking you not to board the bus in Montgomery, not to buy the grapes of CA growers, not to buy Nestle products, not to shop at Walmart, all aimed at perpetrators of VIOLENCE and ATROCITIES against given groups of people. We are asking you not to perform at a festival which perpetuates and normalizes the STATE OF ISRAEL (not Israelis – because Israelis also include Palestinians and people of many other groups), as the perpetrator of violence and atrocities against Palestinians (also citizens of the State of Israelis – though not with the same rights). Sound familiar?
      5 hours ago · Unlike · 7
    • Emma Rosenthal STanley, we were born the same year. Technically, I’m your elder, bu a few months, but we don’t need to split hairs. We came of age in the anti-apartheid movement, heard Gil Scott Heron, live, in small cafes, imagine if that question had been asked of the BDS movement then? If we had to denounce SWAPO and ANC before BDS was considered a legitimate strategy, a moral strategy, the right strategy? 

      http://kora.matrix.msu.edu/files/50/305/32-131-100-98-african_activist_archive-a0a8l9-a_14380.jpg

    • BDS is also not about what Palestinians “should” do, or what Palestinians “owe” to internationals. On the contrary, it is about *our* complicity, and cutting off our *own* complicity. So when we engage in tourism in Israel, it benefits the Israeli economy. When we buy Israeli products, we support the Israeli economy. Keep in mind that the Israeli economy is a mechanism that is based on, and that funds and sustains, occupation and apartheid, of course.

      The cultural and academic boycott of Israel is not exempt from this paradigm. Playing concerts, participating in festivals, these do provide economic and social benefits on a real basis. There is a reason after all that there is a music industry! But beyond that point, the portrayal of Israel as a land of (state-supported and institutional) film festivals, music festivals, and art projects, all funded by and in the interests of the occupation, as normal parts of an apartheid environment and economy, is something that must be challenged. Playing in Israel is saying that apartheid is normal, acceptable, and shouldn’t be challenged. (And besides, maybe there’s something to criticize among the oppressed people?)

      Israel isn’t just committing the violence of the recent attacks on Gaza. It’s an entire project and enterprise based on ethnic cleansing, denying Palestinian refugees their right to return, engaging in institutionalized racism and discrimination, building settlements, confiscating land, demolishing houses, maintaining a colonial occupation. I will note that those who claimed to “oppose” the Black struggle in the US because of the “violence” of the Black Panther Party or Communists or Malcolm X were basically just trying to hold on to the status quo, and all forms of struggle challenged those forms. Nelson Mandela was a leader in the ANC’s armed wing, another example among all national liberation struggles which engage in all types of resistance. Was the primary question then amid the anti-apartheid boycott about the “violence” of the ANC?

      There is a great deal of violence happening in Palestine, and all of it is the responsibility of the occupier. When we travel, tour, perform, read, exhibit or buy in/from Israel, it becomes our responsibility. Take action for *your own* nonviolence, which means not supporting Israel’s – the oppressor’s – ongoing and massive violence – and join the boycott.
    • Matt Graber Stanley Jordan, you write: “My music is orthogonal to that space [the objective, “exterior” dimension, and the world of all things tangible]. My music goes to the heart of the subjective, interior dimension, and the world of all things spiritual. It is intended to touch hearts and souls and change lives from the inside out.”

      With all due respect Stanley, such a statement is patronizing and ignorant. The town of Eilat – where the Red Sea Jazz Fest takes place – was founded by the State of Israel in 1949 on the ruins of the Palestinian village of Umm Rashrash. The Palestinians who lived in the village were forced to flee by the Israeli military in 1948, and they and their ancestors to this very day have been unable to return to their land because their existence within the boundaries of Israel would pose a “demographic threat” to the Jewish state of Israel. Such a racist idea – that non-Jewish bodies are threatening to the character of a state.

      Such is the history and legal position of the over seven million Palestinian refugees, unable to return to their ancestral lands.

      Despite what you say, your music is going to occupy a space. The State of Israel is occupying that territory in an effort to maintain racism, and if your music is shared in that space, it will only be legitimizing the State of Israel’s illegal and immoral occupation, and the differential between who can hear your music, and who cannot.

      Would you play in a whites-only venue in the Jim Crow south?
      5 hours ago · Edited · Unlike · 9

      Charlotte Kates Regarding buying Palestinian products, yes, we should buy Palestinian products! But Palestinians are asking us to do both: to boycott, and to buy Palestinian. So Palestinians are quite clear on the issue, and are the best people to decide how they can be supported. Continuing to support the vastly more powerful, well-funded, internationally supported by U.S./Canadian gov’ts, etc, occupier while buying some olive oil from the occupied will not re-set the balance of power. Cutting off the support for the occupier can be a real part of that, on political and economic levels.
    • Andy Griggs You also mentioned earlier that to be equal we should also be boycotting other countries – including the US – that is hard to do from within the belly of the beast – and most US citizens have not called for BDS. However, if you think about it, some people do boycott certain aspects of the STATE OF THE UNITED STATES – I will not participate in the US military – and did not while I was eligible to do so (Remember draft resistance)? As a matter of fact, while chair of the NEA Peace and Justice CAucus, we put enough pressure on the NEA magazine to get them to stop accepting Military recruiting ads (I think they may have reverted to their old ways now). Many will not participate and purchase anything related to war profiteering businesses (thus the divestiture portion of BDS).
      5 hours ago · Unlike · 6
    • Emma Rosenthal http://kora.matrix.msu.edu/files/50/305/32-131-101-98-african_activist_archive-a0a8m0-a_14380.jpg

      Remember this button? I had one.I probably still do, somewhere. I imagine you had one too, pinned to a backpack. I suppose back then we romanticized armed struggle. Years have sobered us, and we understand much more the deep cost of violent resistance, enough not to glorify it. 

      I also grew up glorifying the Israeli military, that somehow the Israeli army was fighting to vindicate me. But it doesn’t. I denounce their violence. I denounce the violence of the U.S. government, domestically and internationally. MY rights as a Jew, even with the considerable history of suffering and exploitation, even coming out of the Shoah, does not, cannot be and is not sustained at the expense and on the backs of Palestinians. Oppressing Palestinians does not make me safer. Fighting for universal human rights makes me safer, makes us all safer. 

      I denounce the complicity between these two settler colonialist states– their cooperation in building walls– on the U.S. border and in the WEst bank, built by the same companies, on crowd control devices used to disrupt demonstrations, often first practiced on civilian peaceful non-violent demonstrators in Palestine, on the prison industrial complex, the exploitation of labor, the growing apparatus of civil rights violations and laws and codes, tested in one of these two countries, I oppose their complicity in the arms industry and arms proliferation. I denounce the dehumanization of indigenous people, the exploitation of the oppressed, the normalization of hegemony.

      5 hours ago · Like · 9 · Remove Preview

      Charlotte Kates BDS is also something that people tend to call upon internationals to do. So Black South Africans couldn’t really boycott South Africa, and even Israelis that support BDS can’t boycott Israel, and people in the US can’t really boycott the US. But it would be completely and entirely justified for, say, Iraqis or Afghanis, or perhaps more on point, Indigenous and Native peoples of this land, to issue a call for people around the world to boycott the US and US products in protest of the US’ ongoing occupation, and for people to decline to perform, or travel to, or buy products from the US, in support of that call from the people who are the victims of US violence, occupation, racism, and settler colonialism. International boycotts of the US, called for by its victims, are entirely justified.

      In this case, however, we’re discussing a boycott of Israel, called for by the victims of that state, a call to people around the world. It’s a choice – be complicit, or begin to take action to reject complicity. In general, people who act in solidarity with Palestine and who support the BDS movement are the same people who struggle against injustice, war, racism and oppression also on this land, and everywhere around the world. And in the case of Israel, the US provides $3 billion in military aid annually from our tax dollars. It provides unlimited political and diplomatic support. When we boycott Israel, we are in fact challenging the US government’s own responsibility for apartheid, occupation and settler colonialism in Palestine.
    • Sylvia Posadas Stanley, I am hoping you have heard with your spirit and mind that BDS is a non-violent means of achieving justice, the precondition for peace and healing, and is directed at the State of Israel.

      If I had a hammer … I’d hammer in the morning, in the evening, all over this land …
      it’s the hammer of justice, the bell of freedom, the song about love between brothers and sisters …

      This is a song for the oppressed and those who stand with them as I am envisioning that you are enlightened to do. If I could sing you a song to move your perceptions, perhaps it would be that one. BDS is hammering away at the false perceptions and fallacies created by the apartheid state of Israel which attempt to seduce people into thinking that if spiritual music is played to a segregated audience, if spiritual words are said then somehow the consciousness of the state will change for the better. Not so. Empowering a racist, violent state and those who benefit from it and are conditioned by it empowers more abuse. There is no real inducement for racists to end racism, for a violent state to end its violence without solidarity with its victims, insisting that the abuse stop. Otherwise the concept of ‘peace’ is just another illusion, cruelly, cynically manipulated by those with power – a negative peace which infuses when oppressed people are crushed and silent. 

      Oppressed Palestinians have asked you to refrain from contributing to the injustices being committed against them for 65 years, to not cross their picket line, to not compromise their cause and drown out their cry for freedom with music that regardless of its intention or appeal if played under the auspices of the apartheid state cannot help but add to the weight of its boot on their necks. 

      We cannot love each other, there is no basis for peace, without equality, without equal rights, without the end to tyranny.
      2 hours ago · Edited · Unlike · 9
    • Roland Rance Stanley, you have referred several times above to Michael Lerner’s call for a change in the consciousness of Israeli citizens. Indeed, that is what we would all like to see. But Lerner has his approach completely upside down. Such a change in consciousness will not be a condition for the necessary political changes in Palestine/Israel, but a result of these changes. Israeli Jews do not repress Palestinians because they are uniquely bad people, and certainly not (as some bigots would have us believe) because they are Jews. They do so because they are part of an institutionally racist and oppressive society. 

      The urgent need right now is not for some sort of music therapy or consciousness raising for Israeli Jews; it is for action to put a stop to the ongoing oppression. This means ending the brutal military rule in the territories occupied by Israel in 1967; it means abolition and dismantlement of the racist Zionist structure and institutions of the state of Israel, which keep Arab citizens of the state of Israel in a state of permanent inferiority; and it means taking steps to enable the return to Palestine of the millions of Palestinians expelled and dispossessed as a result of the establishment of the state of Israel in 1948.

      These are all fully justified demands for basic human rights and equality. The fact that the Israeli government and its supporters see them as so threatening and radical merely serves to show how far from a normal democratic Israel really is. 

      The call on artists and academics to boycott events and institutions sponsored by the state of Israel is not an attempt to demonise and excommunicate ordinary Israelis. On the contrary, it is a demand to recognise them as equal to (not better and not worse) the Palestinian people; it is a call to refuse to dance on the graves of Palestine while the killing continues. And it is the height of hypocrisy for Israeli apologists to repeatedly ask, as they do, “Where is the Palestinian Gandhi or Mandela”, and then to denounce the call for international support for this non-violent campaign to put pressure on the Israeli state and its accomplices.

      You are in a position to add your voice to this call, or to turn your back. I sincerely hope that you will recognise that, in such a situation there is no middle ground, and that you will agree with the brave conclusion of Elvis Costello that “Sometimes a silence in music is better than adding to the static”.
      3 hours ago · Unlike · 8
    • Gale Courey Toensing To Stanley Jordan: It’s really as simple as supporting the slave owner or supporting the slave. It’s not a question of trying to be “fair” by balancing “both sides of the story.” Just as there is no equivalency between slave owner and slave, there is no equivalency between the oppressor – the Israeli state – and the oppressed – the Palestinian people. Closing your eyes to the Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions movement by performing in Israel would mean you implicitly support Israel’s treatment of the Palestinian people; it would mean you support apartheid, ethnic cleansing, the blockade of Gaza, the bombing deaths of innocent unarmed civilians, the illegal use of white phosphorous on the civilian population, widespread and massive destruction of homes, schools, churches, mosques, the uprooting of tens of thousands of olive trees (the source of Palestine’s famous olive oil, the country’s historic export), the restriction of people’s movements, the building of illegal settler colonies on stolen Palestinian land, and on and on and on. I hope and pray that your heart tells you to do the right thing.
      3 hours ago · Unlike · 8
    • Samira Barghouthi Stanley Jordan, If what you are claiming is sincere then why not sing for the children of Gaza in Gaza a few nights before you sing at the Red Sea Jazz Festival in Israel? This is how you balance things if you are not planning to cancel. I guarantee you that the Israelis will cancel you for just doing that (performing for Children of Gaza). One more thing I am a Palestinian who just recently had to leave to the States after working for ten years in Palestine. The reasons for my return to the States are caused by: (1) not having access for medical services for my sick twins. WHY? ..because Israel built a wall-believe me the wall holds off more services than you could ever think of. I quit my job as a university professor in Palestine and now is unemployed just to be able and have medical support for my daughters and (2) because getting to my work became so unbearable with Israelis checkpoints and pointing guns at civilians (self included) for no logical reason. Do you want to balance all that by a few songs? No offense body, maybe you are good but none of your songs will offset this. ON THE OTHER HAND, YOUR SONGS IF IN GAZA WILL PERHAPS DRY SOME TEARS OF VIOLATED CHILDREN. Think big and get away from thinking small. How important is one show as opposed to your stance as a human?
    • Elise Hendrick Stanley: Please allow me to address two of your comments jointly in order to simplify things:

      “Stanley Jordan Does the BDS movement clearly and categorically disavow violence? I ask because comparisons have been made here to other resistance movements lead by Mahatma Gandhi, Rosa Parks and Martin Luther King, Jr.—and these movements were expressly nonviolent, which gave them moral authority. Thanks in advance for replies.”

      I’m not exactly sure what is meant by this. BDS is as nonviolent a tactic as can be imagined. All we do is exert moral pressure on people not to be complicit in oppression. There’s no violence in that, unless one includes the violence that we are opposing. 

      Are you asking whether the internationals who support the Palestinian call for BDS reject the Palestinians’ right to self-defence? 

      “Stanley Jordan Monique, you said, “I really doubt that an artist could convince a crowd of racists that they must stop their oppression.” You make a good point and I agree with you, but I think we’re talking apples and oranges. Issues concerning the Israeli state and the boycott movement belong to the objective, “exterior” dimension, and the world of all things tangible. My music is orthogonal to that space. My music goes to the heart of the subjective, interior dimension, and the world of all things spiritual. It is intended to touch hearts and souls and change lives from the inside out. I then leave it up to the people to decide what to do with the inspiration. I trust humanity, and I feel that the fully empowered human—empowered on all levels (“cooking on all burners” as Jean Houston would say) —will always make the best decision available to them. In reality I can’t even guarantee that I’ll succeed in the inner space, let alone the outer. But if I do manage to achieve my goal in the inner space, my concert has already succeeded on its own terms.”

      We already know what will be done: Your presence and that of other international artists at this state-sponsored music festival will be once again held out as proof that there’s nothing wrong with Israeli society, and certainly no systematic racist oppression. 

      Now, if you think that your music will actually physically break down the walls that imprison the Palestinians (who, it bears reiterating, will not be allowed anywhere near your performance), and actually render inoperative the bullets and bombs and grenades directed at Palestinians on a daily basis, then you should try to accept that the Palestinians know more about the society they’re living in – and how to get through to it – than you do. 

      “So it does not directly accomplish its goal. In fact, BDS is focused on Israelis, and as such, it does not directly benefit Palestinians—certainly not in the way that a positive, targeted movement such as a “Buy Palestinian” campaign would do.”

      This remark strikes me as a bit odd. Surely you realise by now – since it has been pointed out repeatedly, that it is the Palestinians themselves who have established this picket line and the Palestinians themselves who – in this very thread- have asked that you respect it. 

      A “Buy Palestinian” campaign would not actually adress the issue at all: It would only benefit those Palestinians who have been lucky enough not to have their land stolen at gunpoint by the Israelis (yet), and it would do not a thing to address the system of violently-enforced racist oppression under which they are forced to live.
    • Elise Hendrick It also bears reiterating that this is a boycott of the Israeli state and its institutions. You are being invited to do that state a service, on its dime, for the express purpose of improving its image. This state openly acknowledges that, as far as it is concerned, “all culture is propaganda”. 

      What we and the Palestinians who have addressed you here are asking you to do is not to cross that picket line and not to lend your image and your sound to the propagandists of that state.
    • Elise Hendrick Stanley: I second J Kēhaulani Kauanui‘s sentiment here: 

      “I’m surprised and somewhat disconcerted by this query because it suggests that the informative posts delineated here, which pro-BDS folk pouring their hearts and energies into, have not necessarily been read either carefully or in their entirety.”

      This question about “disavowing violence” strikes me as quite bizarre coming from someone who had appeared to be paying close attention to what has been said here. That is just one example of things you have asked today that ring false and are incongruous with the course of the discussion. It comes out of nowhere, and that leads me to wonder who wanted you, Stanley, to be the one to ask that. 

      I have long found it quite odd that the pro-apartheid contingent has been absent from this thread. Usually, they are on these threads spreading openly racist filth like there’s no tomorrow. Given how much priority is given to undermining the BDS campaign, I seriously doubt that they have simply opted to sit this one out, and when I hear you ask questions that seem to come out of someone else’s talking points rather than the discussion we have been having up until now, I have to wonder who all has decided to “participate” in this discussion without showing their faces and opening themselves up to rebuttal.
    • Emma Rosenthal Stanley, please watch this message to Jello Biafra, who did decide eventually to honor the picket line. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FcKaw_Wgaoo

    • Emma Rosenthal This is a video of Palestinian American activist, Huwaida Arraf, who is deeply dedicated to non-violence. She is founder of the ISM (the International Sollidarity Movement). http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SQyIKyd2gqA

      26 minutes ago · Like · 1 · Remove Preview

      • Rima Najjar Dear Stanley Jordan: Thank you for your most recent questions. I have come to understand them in this discussion as points in a devil’s advocate argument – that you do not necessarily agree with them (how could you after all that’s been said? How could you, given where their logic leads us?). Palestinians are constantly being asked to renounce violence and Israel (the armed-to-the-teeth oppressor) never is. I wonder how that would work from a practical point of view – asking Israel to renounce violence in order to achieve its oppression? It’s a good topic for a satiric novel. Palestinians are being asked to be more Christian than the Christian Zionists – to turn the other cheek for more bashing. Earlier on in this discussion, people explained that the call for boycott is a non-violent tactic with a good chance of being effective in achieving its goals, not a principle. The questions (both regarding therapy and violence) seem to be still in search of a principle when the principle of solidarity to achieve justice and equality for the oppressed is glaringly at the center of all this.
        4 minutes ago · Edited · Unlike · 2

        • Rima Najjar “Freethinkers are those who are willing to use their minds without prejudice and without fearing to understand things that clash with their own customs, privileges, or beliefs. This state of mind is not common, but it is essential for right thinking…” ― Leo Tolstoy
        • Rima Najjar The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest things cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of real doubt, what is laid before him. – Leo Tolstoy
        • Samira Barghouthi Rima Najjar, I had a feeling this discussion was started for some kind of hidden agenda of Stanley Jordan (although it is nice to see the amount of support there is for BDS) . Stanley Jordan seems to have a zionist for an adviser. He does not care about Palestinians or humanity….else how would one explain these postings this late in the discussion. To be honest, I would not care if Stanley boycotts or not as it has to come from the heart and he is apparently too far from such deep convictions.
        • Palestinian Campaign for the Academic and Cultural Boycott of Israel Dear Stanley,
          We hope you had the chance to read our earlier comment to weigh in on this discussion, and that you had time to read the link we attached. We are humbled by the fascinating comments of all those promoting BDS in this discussion, and if you have not read through them all you really should take the time, as people have been thoughtful and patient in taking the time to elaborate all the reasons for why Palestinians are calling for BDS. Our purpose in writing again is primarily to make sure you are hearing directly from the Palestinian campaign where we represent over 170 civil society organizations. We ask you not to perform in Israel until it ends the occupation, recognizes and promotes the rights of refugees to return to their homes, and recognizes the full equality of Palestinian citizens of Israel. In other words, we are calling on you not to perform in a state that practices occupation, colonialism and apartheid, just as you would not have performed in Sun City in the days of Apartheid South Africa. As the novelist Alice Walker wrote in a letter rejecting the publication of her work with an Israeli publishing house, “now is not the time.” You might also hear the judicious words of Enuga S. Reddy, director of the United Nations Center against Apartheid, who in 1984 responded to a similar criticism voiced against the cultural boycott of South Africa by saying:

          “It is rather strange, to say the least, that the South African regime which denies all freedoms… to the African majority… should become a defender of the freedom of artists and sportsmen of the world. We have a list of people who have performed in South Africa because of ignorance of the situation or the lure of money or unconcern over racism. They need to be persuaded to stop entertaining apartheid, to stop profiting from apartheid money and to stop serving the propaganda purposes of the apartheid regime.” 

          The list of Israel’s violations of international law is long, and we ask you to learn about the issues and not perform publicly in Israel, an act that will be used to whitewash the state’s crimes and used as a state propaganda tool. Finally, we want to be clear that should you perform in Israel you would unfortunately not be welcome in the Occupied Palestinian Territories. An event that would be held in the OPT billed as open to Palestinians and Israelis would also not be a compromise solution. We simply ask you not to cross a Palestinian, international, and increasingly Israeli picket line. We hope you’ll heed our call. 

          Separately, to all those who have participated in this discussion, we cannot thank you enough for your time and the excellent arguments you have laid out.

          Sincerely,
          PACBI
        • Radi Annab It is humbling and inspiring to see all this support for the Palestinian cause, and especially from non Palestinians. There was a time, not long ago, when this type of discussion would never have taken place. Stanley, I hope you will take a stand for justice, for equality, for humanity, and stand up to one of the greatest injustices against a people whose voice has been drowned by the oppressive and powerful Zionist movement, but a voice that you can help raise, as many in this forum are doing.
        • Tali Shapiro “We are humbled by the fascinating comments of all those promoting BDS in this discussion…” ~ Over 170 civil society Palestinian organizations healing the souls of their very tiered allies in solidarity. (just wanted to say thank you Palestinian Campaign for the Academic and Cultural Boycott of Israel )

          Once again, most of what I would like to say is already up here. Since you mention both healing and “positive” action (I put it in quotes because there is nothing negative about not buying, not investing or divesting from, or sanctioning something immoral and hurtful), I’d like you to take a look at the latest Who Profits report about the pharmaceutical industryhttp://whoprofits.org/content/captive-economy-pharmaceutical-industy-and-israeli-occupation Who Profits is a research project that has amassed information about over 1000 companies involved in Israel’s occupation. The report outlines exactly how Israel can- within minutes- stop a whole Palestinian market or sector from any growth (complete control), and I think it extra appropriate, if we’re talking about healing. 

          And since we’re talking about healing (again?!), we can talk about the 50something hospitals Israel has bombed in Gaza in “Cast Lead”, in the fact that it keeps medical supplies scarce both in Gaza and the West Bank, in the fact that its medical facilities discriminate non-hebrew-speaking people inside the 1948 armistice line. We can talk about the fact that it stops sick people at the checkpoints, forcing pregnant women to give birth in the cold to dead babies, or we can talk about the Israeli secret service using the severely and terminally ill for their “security” purposes. 

          I understand you want to do something, I know I do. But that’s not the situation here. The situation is that you’ve scheduled a concert/healing session with those who are part of the system which does all these hurtful things. Now seeing that there are many in dire straights in the area, your heart opens, you want to reach out to them. That’s great. But they never asked this from you. The situation is that you’ve made contact with their oppressor, they are asking you not to do that. In reply, for now, what you’re saying is that you’ll continue the contact with their oppressor and give them some kind of healing charity. I gotta tell you, if I were Palestinian, I wouldn’t take your kind offer. I’d kinda be offended. I’d also like to add that at the time, the Coen Brothers said something similar to what you’re saying http://pulsemedia.org/2011/05/16/dear-coen-brothers-it%E2%80%99s-nothing-personal-it%E2%80%99s-all-political/

          As for BDS, unlike most efforts for “peace” (in quotes because in the local political context, for Palestinians this word has become null and void, because the state uses it as a cover up for abuse and a balancing of oppressor and oppressed), it actually doesn’t focus on Israelis, it focuses on the mechanisms of oppression, which people in the movement work long and hard to research and analyze. For example, has it not yet been made clear in this discussion how the Red Sea Jazz Fest is exactly part of the mechanism? Because that’s really the issue here. The rest is stuff (like today’s latest news of Israel’s deepening annexation process, i.e. theft of land, i.e. theft of livelihoodhttp://www.maannews.net/eng/ViewDetails.aspx?ID=551989) we can talk about when we’re not pressed for time before you’re scheduled to perform here, especially since you’re not one who isn’t aware of the toll the occupation and apartheid policies take on the Palestinian people.
          4 hours ago · Like · 7
        • Stanley Jordan Rima, yes you’re right that many of my questions are of the “devil’s advocate” kind and they don’t necessarily reflect my beliefs. The Middle East issue is very complex, and I’m trying to learn as much as I can in a short time. Being that I’m here in the U.S., I have to ask questions about things that many of you take for granted because you are there and you have been living this situation for years.
          4 hours ago · Unlike · 3
        • Rima Najjar I understand that, Stanley. Tali Shapiro has just written a very moving note above. I hope you will have the time to read it. I was holding back from giving you more information at this late stage, thinking you already have a lot before you, but she managed to do so movingly and with such complete grasp of what’s going on. Being Israeli and “on the inside”, she has more intimate knowledge than most of how (all the baffling nuances) Israel’s power is wielded to oppress cut us down.
          4 hours ago · Unlike · 5
        • Stanley Jordan I promised a definitive statement on this matter today, and I’ll be posting later, probably in the early evening Eastern Standard Time. For those of you in later time zones such as the Middle East, you may not see it until Early Tuesday.Thanks for your patience. I don’t mean to keep anyone in suspense, but it’s a really important issue and I want to give it my deepest consideration. I hope you can understand.
          4 hours ago · Like · 1
        • Stanley Jordan Samira, I do care, or else i would not have taken the time to open this discussion and carefully read all of the eloquent and well-articulated comments that have been posted here. If I didn’t care I would not have made the effort to discuss this directly with you and all the other good people who have joined the conversation. There is no hidden agenda–just my open mind and heart.
        • Rima Najjar Since you haven’t yet made up your mind, Stanley, please continue asking questions in any area that may still seem ambiguous to you. Here is wishing you moral clarity that will guide your actions in the New Year and always.
          3 hours ago · Like · 4
        • Stanley Jordan Karen, you referenced my comment where I said, “BDS aims at creating exterior pressure on Israelis, which it then hopes will lead to an interior change on their part (a change of heart), which would then lead them to change their (external) policies. So it does not directly accomplish its goal. In fact, BDS is focused on Israelis, and as such, it does not directly benefit Palestinians—certainly not in the way that a positive, targeted movement such as a “Buy Palestinian” campaign would do.”

          You asked who told me that. The answer is, for the first part, it was the BDS supporters who have posted here. This is my interpretation of what I’ve been reading. If I’m wrong, please let me know. 

          For the second part, it is my own assessment. I’ve been told that my music cannot directly change a political system and I agree. But I pointed out that neither can a boycott. BDS is focused in Israelis because they are the ones who are losing cultural visitors. I understand the reasoning behind that, but that still leaves the future in their hands, because it is up to them to decide how to react to the boycott. They could react in a way that makes the problem even worse. That’s why I suggested something positive such as a “Buy Palestinian” campaign. Is there such a thing organized already?
        • Tali Shapiro Rima I’m so glad to know I’m not misrepresenting. Thank you for letting me know. I was feeling a little off for “translating” Palestinians and speaking in your voice. I don’t mean ever to appropriate it. I tend to speak out of my loved ones’ pain. People I know intimately and that would not have accepted me into their hearts without feeling that I understand them, and appreciate the privilege of their trust and friendship. It’s a pleasure to meet you 

          Stanley Jordan I know I’ve said it before, but it bears crystallizing: 
          The question that lays before you is simple and binary: Knowing all you know about the Eilat Red Sea Jazz Festival, should you continue as scheduled your participation in it, or should you cancel?
          Anything else is irrelevant to the Palestinian civil society request from you. You want to perform in Ramallah? Go for it! You want to do music healing sessions with children in Balata refugee camp? Go for it! 

          But if you want to perform in Israel while saying something against occupation, you’ll cross the picket line. The reason the Boycott National Comittee doesn’t offer this as an option is a) It’s immoral for them to get into the contents of your show. b) As part of their rejection to this type of fascism, they don’t apply boycott to the individual, but to the mechanism. And c) Why should any Palestinian accept a “balancing”, charity show, after the artist made money from a gig serving the system that holds them dependent on that charity? We can buy them guns instead, so they can shoot themselves in the foot. (sorry… I see a lot of blood on a regular basis, makes my humor wonky)
          3 hours ago · Unlike · 7
        • Elise Hendrick “You asked who told me that. The answer is, for the first part, it was the BDS supporters who have posted here. This is my interpretation of what I’ve been reading. If I’m wrong, please let me know. “

          I’m honestly at a loss to understand how you could have got that from what has been said here. What has been said in this thread, time and time again, is that the tactic is directed at the state and its core institutions, including state-sponsored cultureganda efforts like the Red Sea Jazz Festival. It is not focused on Israelis, but on THE INSTITUTIONAL STRUCTURES.

          “They could react in a way that makes the problem even worse. That’s why I suggested something positive such as a “Buy Palestinian” campaign. Is there such a thing organized already?”

          I’m not sure what is negative about refusing to be associated with a racist regime and refusing to play segregated venues. Was it negative of Paul Robeson to go up on stage and declare that he would no longer play any house that wouldn’t accept him as an audience member?

          If the Palestinians felt that buying the products of what is left of their economy – an economy that is under the absolute and total control of Israel and can be shut down at a moment’s notice – were the way to end the racist regime that makes them second-class human beings in their own country, I’m sure that’s what they would be calling for. As far as I can tell, no one in Palestinian society seriously thinks that such a tack would work, because it wouldn’t actually address the problems that cause their misery.
          3 hours ago · Unlike · 7
        • Rima Najjar Tali Shapiro – you are also speaking for yourself, as an Israeli, not just for me. We both need liberation.
          3 hours ago · Edited · Unlike · 7
        • Sylvia Posadas To add to what Elise has said – the boycott is targeted at the Israeli state and its institutions, and like other boycotts before it which have been successful, can directly impact the state and its structures for the better. Along with global citizens, Israeli citizens of conscience are asked to join in solidarity with the boycott against the apartheid state. 

          If one of the measures of success of the BDS call is the participation of Israeli citizens with it despite the legal potholes the State has attempted to lay before them, the evidence of their solidarity stands out in this thread. You too are invited, Stanley, and I’m hoping you see your way clear to accepting.
          2 hours ago · Edited · Unlike · 7
        • Tali Shapiro Stanley Jordan to your latest question, I direct you to the Q&A of Boycott from Within http://boycottisrael.info/content/frequently-asked-questions (better to read it off the website, where there are links to incidences we were referring to)

          “(11) A boycott may achieve the opposite of what it intends to achieve. Won’t Israeli society feel that everyone is against it and toughen its position?

          A certain amount of internal backlash in Israeli public opinion following growing international pressure is an expected outcome. Israelis tend to see themselves as the victims and this will not change soon. The myth of Israel being “the only democracy in the Middle East” has to be challenged and Israelis will not let go of it easily. However, boycott is an effective way to raise awareness by causing people to think of why they are being boycotted and excluded. The initial responses will always be “because they hate us”; “because they are anti-Semitic”. But greater economic pressure should prompt more people in Israel to begin considering ways to reduce that pressure, so as to restore their country’s full participation in the normal life of the international community. At the governmental level, such pressure was found effective in the very few cases in which it was applied (for example in forcing Israel to enter the 1991 Madrid negotiations or to temporarily stop house demolitions in Jerusalem).

          It is quite clear today that our ability to change the Israeli public discourse is limited and that the local anti-occupation movement alone cannot change the regime’s policy. Therefore, international pressure is absolutely necessary to change the Israeli/Palestinian reality – hopefully, a change in reality will change public opinion.”

          I’d also like to add from my personal feminist perspective that when we approach someone and call him out for sexist behavior, usually what we get is full-on backlash, including self-victimization, the tarnishing of our names (“divisive”, “feminist jihad” (I kid you not), “white feminists” etc. ), and at times, more gender-driven terror of the sexualized variety. I often say that when stepping on one’s toe, the moral response to “ouch!” is NOT “fuck you! why’d you put your toe under my foot!?!”

          boycottisrael.info

          Disclaimer:These frequently asked questions and answers have been compiled by quite a few members of the group but need not represent the views of all the members of the group. Any disagreements or reservations should be sent to the moderator and will be posted as messages written by specific indivi…
          3 hours ago · Unlike · 6
        • Zoë Lawlor Appreciative of the time you are giving this Stanley Jordan, but I have to say – being involved in a campaign to resist apartheid and oppression IS ‘positive’, it’s one of the most significant things you could do, to join the growing global BDS movement. The Palestinians are not calling for a ‘buy Palestine’ campaign for many of the reasons enumerated above – they are calling for people to stand in solidarity with them, for justice and not to cross the picket line. That’s it, it’s there – I really hope you heed the call and cancel.
          2 hours ago · Unlike · 6
        • Tali Shapiro Amen to that Rima! (I was referring to my quite literal “Palestinians said” “Palestinians did not ask”…etc.)
          2 hours ago · Unlike · 3
        • Stanley Jordan Elise, you said, “We already know what will be done: Your presence and that of other international artists at this state-sponsored music festival will be once again held out as proof that there’s nothing wrong with Israeli society, and certainly no systematic racist oppression. “

          I certainly would not want my concert to be used by anyone to support a propaganda campaign. But it seems to me that the BDS boycott could be spun just as easily. They could say, for example that it’s an attempt to isolate Jews even more than they already are. I won’t give any more examples, because I don’t want to give anyone any ideas, but the point is, we cannot control the major media. Telling me that I should not play the concert because it can be spun in the media is like saying there should be no BDS boycott because it, too can be spun. I’m not saying there’s no media spin, I’m just saying that that, by itself, is not a reason to cancel my concert.

          At any rate, the cure for bad speech is more speech, and you are adding your voice to the mix, which is good. You’re also educating me so that I can hopefully someday speak intelligently on this matter. I realize that debating with me is probably tedious. But trust me, you are earning an ally in the process. Please understand that I am being told that cancelling my concert is the only possible way that I can help the Palestinian people, but I see many possibilities.

          You also said, “Now, if you think that your music will actually physically break down the walls that imprison the Palestinians (who, it bears reiterating, will not be allowed anywhere near your performance), and actually render inoperative the bullets and bombs and grenades directed at Palestinians on a daily basis, then you should try to accept that the Palestinians know more about the society they’re living in – and how to get through to it – than you do.”

          I’ve always agreed that my music will not physically change the system. There is e the exterior (objective) dimension, including the state system and the boycott. Then you have the interior (subjective) dimension, where my music resides. I feel like I’m surrounded by externalists who are trying to convince me that the exterior dimension is all that matters, and all I’m trying to say is that the interior dimension matters too. Is anyone out there hearing me at all?
        • Stanley Jordan Elise, you said, “…Palestinians (who, it bears reiterating, will not be allowed anywhere near your performance)…” This is part of what is confusing to me. Because I’ve also been told that there are Palestinians living in Israel who will be able to see my concert. In fact, if I do the concert, I have some Palestinian friends who said they could come to see me. Please pardon my ignorance, but I really don’t understand. it seems to me that part of the confusions is whether it’s one state or two, Some people have said that most Palestinians can’t come to my concert simply because Palestine is not Israel and they don’t have visas. Others have said Palestine is part of Israel, so Palestinians should be free to go wherever they want within the occupied territories. Am I stupid or this is this thing just a confusing mess (or both)?
        • Rima Najjar Stanley, you say, “But it seems to me that the BDS boycott could be spun just as easily. They could say, for example that it’s an attempt to isolate Jews even more than they already are.” What Elise and others are trying to claify is the difference between the citizens of Israel (20% of whom, btw, is NOT Jewish) on the one hand and the state and its structures on the other. Do you get that?
          2 hours ago · Unlike · 5
        • Rima Najjar Stanley, you say “I am being told that cancelling my concert is the only possible way that I can help the Palestinian people, but I see many possibilities.” Using the passive obscures the point that it is the Palestinian people as represented by the civil organizations that make up PACBI that is doing the asking or telling. So the question is, do you want to be in solidarity with us or not? Remember what we now all understand the word “solidarity” to mean.
          2 hours ago · Like · 5
        • Zoë Lawlor Stanley, the supporters of apartheid can of course spin your not playing but they will be wrong. However, if you play a state sponsored event, that can be used as endorsement of the state. The Palestinians here have spoken to you from their hearts and asked you to do this act of solidarity with them, this is not exterior, it is their lives and reality.
          2 hours ago · Unlike · 6
        • Rima Najjar I hear you Stanley. The point is how to make sense of what I hear. You say, “you have the interior (subjective) dimension, where my music resides. I feel like I’m surrounded by externalists who are trying to convince me that the exterior dimension is all that matters, and all I’m trying to say is that the interior dimension matters too. Is anyone out there hearing me at all?” Shouldn’t the inner and outer representations be in harmony?
          2 hours ago · Edited · Unlike · 4
        • Stanley Jordan Rima, you said, “Palestinians are constantly being asked to renounce violence and Israel (the armed-to-the-teeth oppressor) never is.” I think that is a good point, and I am certainly not in favor of double standards. However, I hear each side saying that it is only defending itself while the the other side is committing violence. From where I sit it all looks like violence to me. The idea of self-defense is that the other guy started it, which gets into a “chicken-egg” problem. Even if you could solve it, so what? The point is, how to get to peace? in this regard, as I’ve said before, BDS looks like a step in the right direction because it moves the conflict to the economic and cultural spheres, although my preference would be to stay out of the whole conflict frame entirely.
        • Zoë Lawlor Stanley, this is a video of the Amireh brothers trying to get to see Madonna, this will give you an idea of what the Palestinians have to live with.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q7Rl5XfoHbU

          www.youtube.com

          The Amira Brothers of Ni’lin villege try to get to Madonna’s “Peace Concert”.The road is long, but they are determined. Through the apartheid wall, to the ch…
          2 hours ago · Unlike · 4
        • Rima Najjar Stanley, after getting all the hard info about Israel, do you really still feel that that statement “each side saying that it is only defending itself while the the other side is committing violence” has any value? To say that is to deny the Nakba ever happened. There is an oppressor and an oppressed here – and the equation is not grey. Palestinian resistance to oppression has taken a violent form, that’s true. But it is still resistance to aggression, not aggression. The call to boycott is a non-violent tactic to achieve an end you must surely see as just by now.
          2 hours ago · Unlike · 6
        • Stanley Jordan Here is an article in The Economist that says that the Palestinian leadership does not support the BDS movement. However, it is an old article (goes back to 2007). What is the current status of that relationship?http://www.economist.com/node/9804231?story_id=9804231

          www.economist.com

          FOR once, Israel’s critics and cheerleaders agree on something: the Jewish state risks greater international isolation. Pro-Israel groups such as NGO Monitor and the…
        • Sylvia Posadas Stanley, I’m interested in what your internal dimension of music feels like for you and whether that aspect can be communicated remotely rather than with a live audience.
          2 hours ago · Unlike · 4
        • Rima Najjar Stanley, you say, “my preference would be to stay out of the whole conflict frame entirely.” HOW is that even possible except through mumbo jumbo? Sorry, I don’t mean to be disrespectful, but that’s how it sounds to me. It’s misapplying a New Age world view to a context that badly needs something entirely different.
          2 hours ago · Unlike · 3
        • Tali Shapiro Stanley, BDS is already spun (as I said in my first comment, Palestinians are already spun), but you can’t equate a civil society movement that is spun by the state, to a state organized event which is a spin in itself. The event will not be spun, it is already in service of the oppression of Palestinians. Which brings me to a sad, but true point, your participation in the event will not be spun. Your participation in the event is your OK to the existence of the spinning event, to begin with. You already have been made aware of what the event (which exists with or without your participation, because the state is much more efficient at booking artists, than we can ever be at getting them to see its significance) means to the people around it. For Israelis it means entertainment. For Palestinians it means a whitewashing of their erasure. You’ve already have been made aware of what the people being erased need to feel that they are not being violated, by people coming from outside (initially unaware, that’s why we all feel the urgency of giving the information).

          On a side note, none of the arguments given here are separate from each other. The spin PR/Brand Israel issue is part and parcel of the mechanisms of occupation. It’s not “just one of the reasons you should boycott”, it’s part of the mechanism. Once we understand the mechanism (and that there is a mechanism to begin with), we can effectively start placing our sticks in its cogs. 

          As for the “externalists” surrounding you (I’m kinda giggling here), Palestinians have been externalized from the system, it’s not them that externalize Israel.

          Finally, for the issue (which is crucial to understand) of the divided Palestinian people, I’ve written about this, so I offer you the articlehttp://pulsemedia.org/2012/07/01/the-red-hot-chili-peppers-and-the-story-of-the-wiping-out-of-the-indigenous-people-of-a-land-formerly-known-as-falastin/ If you have any more questions about this topic, I’m here.

          pulsemedia.org

          Dear Red Hot Chili Peppers, It’s me again. After 11 letters from all around the world, a petition with over 6400 signatories that just keeps growing, and a couple groups on Facebook [1,2], it seems…
          2 hours ago · Unlike · 6
        • Stanley Jordan Samira, you said, “Stanley Jordan seems to have a zionist for an adviser”. Again, please pardon my ignorance, but what is zionism?
        • Reem Kelani Please add my name as signatory as follows: “Reem Kelani, Palestinian musician and broadcaster”. All solidarity as ever, Reem
          2 hours ago · Unlike · 8
        • Rima Najjar Stanley, I took a look at the article and it sounds to me like a hasbara opinion piece (coming out of Jerusalem, you notice, not the West Bank), the purpose of which is to undermine the campaign. By “leadership”, I suppose you mean the PA? If that’s what you mean, it is not difficult to understand their position towards any Palestinian move that Israel interprets as “anti-Israeli”. Since Oslo, the PA has been forced to tow the liine and provide “security” for Israel against its own people, waiting in vain to be handed out something. But I can assure that the PA leadership is solidly behind any effective action that would achieve a modicum of justice.
          2 hours ago · Unlike · 5
        • Zoë Lawlor Stanley, this is some information from last year about the restriction of movement imposed on the Palestinian people by apartheid Israel. I have to say as well, there is no equivocation between the occupier and the occupied, the oppressor and the oppressed. Your solidarity should be with the oppressed.http://www.btselem.org/freedom_of_movement/checkpoints_and_forbidden_roads

          www.btselem.org

          Israel’s severe restrictions on Palestinians’ freedom of movement in the West Bank are enforced by a system of fixed checkpoints, surprise flying checkpoints, physical obstructions, roads on which Palestinians are forbidden to travel, and gates along the Separation Barrier.  The restrictions enable …
          2 hours ago · Unlike · 4
        • Sylvia Posadas For what it’s worth the other day ‘The Palestinian Authority has said it would push for a boycott of Israeli goods and engage in civil disobedience.’

          Previously the PA has expressed support for the settlement boycott.

          http://www.thenational.ae/thenationalconversation/comment/the-icc-is-a-hollow-option-as-israeli-settlements-expand#ixzz2GdPb5oFU

          www.thenational.ae

          There is no guarantee that the International Criminal Court would take up any request to hear a case about settlement building, nor any indication that Palestinian leaders have the will to mount such a legal challenge.
          2 hours ago · Edited · Unlike · 5
        • Zoë Lawlor Of course, there’s no possibility of the Palestinians in Gaza coming to your concert, trapped as they are by Israel’s illegal, immoral siege.
          2 hours ago · Unlike · 5
        • Rima Najjar Stanley, what is Zionism? Ali Abunimah declares Zionism to be Racism/Bigotry

          We the undersigned, as Palestinians living in historic Palestine and the diaspora, in the spirit of past statements, and in light of recent controversies, write to reaffirm a key principle of our movement for freedom, justice, and equality: The struggle for our inalienable rights is one opposed to all forms of racism and bigotry, including, but not limited to, anti-Semitism, Islamophobia, Zionism, and other forms of bigotry directed at anyone, and in particular people of color and indigenous peoples everywhere.

          http://electronicintifada.net/blogs/ali-abunimah/struggle-palestinian-rights-incompatible-any-form-racism-or-bigotry-statement

          electronicintifada.net

          Palestinians affirm that “the struggle for our inalienable rights is one opposed to all forms of racism and bigotry, including, but not limited to, anti-Semitism, Islamophobia, Zionism and other forms of bigotry.”
          2 hours ago · Unlike · 6
        • Brian Kelly Please respect the call of Palestinian civil society to boycott Israel until it ends its occupation of the Palestinian territories, until it ends its system of apartheid against Palestinians that makes them into second-class citizens (like black South Africans were under South African Apartheid and like African Americans were under Jim Crow segregation), and until Palestinians are guaranteed the right to return to their homeland, from which they were expelled in 1948 and continually afterward. You can read statements by Palestinian networks, trade unions, organisations, and NGOS calling for people to boycott Israel here: http://www.bdsmovement.net/category/statements-2

          “Zionism” is the racist, colonial settler ideology that promoted a Jewish-only homeland in what was previously a multi-ethnic, multi-religious region called Palestine. It founded the state of Israel through terrorism by expelling Palestinians from their homes by force (i.e. through the ethnic cleaning of the Palestine). 

          You bring up that there are Palestinians living in Israel. This is true. But they live as second class citizens much like African Americans lived as second class citizens in the U.S. during Jim Crow segregation. Here’s a video you can watch to learn about Israeli apartheid and how the Israeli state formally and legally discriminates against Palestinians lives within their borders:http://wearemany.org/v/2012/06/israels-apartheid-state

          www.bdsmovement.net

          These statements have been issued by the Palestinian BDS National Committee or its member organisations.
        • Tali Shapiro I’d say the PA isn’t really a relevant starter point of representation when you have the signatures of over 170 civil society organizations that pretty much cover everyone from women, workers, queers, universities, children, refugees and prisoners. Maybe it’s just the anarchist in me….

          But to further understanding, Palestinian parties all advocate for all sorts of forms of boycott and express it differently. So the PA has their campaign of boycotting Israeli goods (which is kinda ineffective because Israeli products dominate the Palestinian market, as documented in the Pharmaceutical report + the PA is dominated by all sorts of business with Israeli corporations, like the mobile phone business-airwaves dominated by Israel). Hamas is catching up slowly, but has made statements to this effect http://www.qassam.ps/specialfile-364-Hamas_urges_states_to_boycott_Israel_end_siege.html The PFLP is also into ithttp://www.frso.org/docs/2009/pflp-world-must-boycott-criminal-govt-netanyahu.htm and so are Palestinian citizens of Israel serving (not anymorehttp://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/dec/19/haneen-zoabi-disqualified-re-election-knesset) in the Israeli Parliament http://honestreporting.com/arab-voting-becomes-stick-to-beat-israel/ This article specifically is an example of how Israel PR spins. I give it because it also answers your question “what is Zionism”? Zionism is a supremacist ideology rooted in 20th century European Jewry. It’s the irony of what used to be an oppressed people, totally took on the racist traits of their oppressors. It prevails today in Israel and this article is the perfect example for it: In “The Only Democracy in the Middle East” (PR term Israel uses to describe itself, which is a- a lie and b-racist) the minority boycotting the elections is not a sign of its exclusion, but a “stick” used to “beat” the “poor, little ole’ ” majority.
        • Stanley Jordan Andy, you said, “BDS comes from all sectors of civil society. I would imagine that some do and some do not denounce violence.” My first thought was, “Why is it OK to accept people who openly condone violence, while putting me down simply for being reluctant to cancel a gig?” But here is my attempt to make peace with that contradiction: It appears to me that BDS is an alliance, and as such, has limited control over its members. An alliance accepts that there may be strong differences of opinion but it focuses on areas of shared interest with an emphasis on pragmatism. I would like to work in alliance with those who support the Palestinian people and, in the true spirit of alliance, have it be understood that there may be differences of opinion on how best to accomplish that. BDS offers only one way to accomplish that goal, and that is the central issue being debated on this thread.
        • Brian Kelly We don’t have a right to dictate to oppressed people how they choose to resist their oppressors. We wouldn’t, for example, condemn the violence of slaves who fought in the U.S. Civil War to end slavery, would we? There is no comparison between the racist violence of the slaveowners and the defensive violence of the slaves fighting for their emancipation from slavery. 

          That is a different question from asking people who support an end to occupation and apartheid to not perform in Israel until the conditions of the movement are met (ending apartheid, ending the occupation, allowing Palestinians to return to their homeland, etc.). You can have disagreements on a whole host of other political issues, just like you can disagree on various other issues with workers who are on strike in a workplace and still refuse to cross their picket line.

          Violating a widespread call by an oppressed people for a boycott is exactly like crossing a picket line. People who are committed to social justice shouldn’t do it. 

          What groups or individuals think about other forms of resistance is separate from the fact that a large number of groups have come to unity on this nonviolent form of resistance to Israeli apartheid and occupation. If you support nonviolence *all the more reason* to not violate this boycott, and to not give cover to the *infinitely greater violence* of the Israeli apartheid state and its wars and occupation.
        • Rima Najjar Stanley, you say, “BDS offers only one way to accomplish that goal, and that is the central issue being debated on this thread.” Are we really debating whether BDS should be providing a menu of different options or not? Do we not have consensus on anything? The fact is PACBI has asked you to bycott in solidarity with the Palestinian cause, which I think you understand and empathize with. So on what do you base your decision? Whether there are different choices on the menu to show solidarity? It’s a boycott campaign and they are asking you to boycott. You are either in solidarity with that or not.
        • Tali Shapiro Stanley, the people “condoning violence” are not some people living in the burbs, egging on some dude who’s committing an armed robbery of a grocery store. They are people who (I apologize again for speaking for people whom I cannot begin to understand their experiences) are under brutal, military rule, their identity is illegalaized, under a system that colonized them long ago and ever since then has made their lives an insignificance. When Palestinians are killed by Israel, if it’s reported at all, the question is always “what did he do that made Israel defend itself in such an extreme manner”. Obviously, something is off with this premise. Why are they made to apologize for desperate acts of gaining control, when their oppressor is never taken to task? Should a woman who killed her beating husband be put in jail?

          As for “simply for being reluctant to cancel a gig”. This gig, as already been explained again and again, has a very specific political meaning. That’s why everybody here is up in arms. You make an unfair connection between BDS and armed resistance, when again and again it’s been explained that supporting one doesn’t equate to supporting the other. What has been stated is that to ask Palestinians to denounce armed resistance is to ask them to go like sheep to the slaughter, while American citizens for example have a constitutional right to bear arms, exactly to protect them from the state.

          Just for clarification: I personally do not support the right to bear arms, I think it’s a mistake, but I’m not so cynical that I can’t understand why people would need to physically protect themselves from the state. 

          I also think your understanding of BDS is getting closer and closer to what it actually is. It’s THE point of unity for Palestinians, no matter where they are, no matter what party they vote for, no matter how they define their liberation. It is also a call to people who are not Palestinian and it’s very clear. Framing it as if it doesn’t allow your solidarity is a fallacy. As I explained before, you are more than welcome do whatever kind of healing work you are into within Palestinian communities. The only no-no is to make the weight on their shoulders heavier, by serving the occupation’s mechanisms. No one is asking for favors here. The BDS call is a call made out of dignity, not out of the demeaning stance of beggars.
        • Rima Najjar Here is a recent incident to illustrate part of what Tali is saying:
          http://occupiedpalestine.wordpress.com/2012/12/30/security-video-of-killing-of-hebron-circus-student-shows-claim-of-toy-gun-fraudulent/

          occupiedpalestine.wordpress.com

          LIVE BLOG | Israeli soldier Nofar Mizrahi killed Mohammad Zaid Awwad Salayam on his 17th birthday | UPDATED Saturday December 29, 2012 00:04 by Saed Bannoura – IMEMC News An Israeli security …
        • Sylvia Posadas Stanley, there may be a lot of creative possibilities whereby you can demonstrate solidarity in addition to supporting the boycott. For example, Roger Waters from Pink Flloyd produced and sang ‘We Shall Overcome’ and One World came up with ‘Freedom for Palestine’. But make no mistake, if you breach the boycott, you will not be able to claim that you are supporting Palestinian civil society’s overwhelming consensus for their chosen tactic, and you will not be in solidarity with Palestinians. Without supporting the boycott, your efforts will be interpreted as a discordant top down approach.
        • Emma Rosenthal Earlier in this thread PACBI posted “Palestinian Campaign for the Academic and Cultural Boycott of Israel Dear Stanley Jordan,
          Much has already been said but we just want to officially add our voice from the Palestinian Campaign for the Academic and Cultural Boycott of Israel (PACBI) and appeal to you to cancel your show. We represent an overwhelming majority of Palestinian civil society and hope that you will hear us, voices from Palestine, rather than take your lead from what Israelis might tell you. We are calling for the world to boycott Israel as a nonviolent and morally consistent form of resistance. Performing or showcasing music and art cannot be divorced from the politics of the world we live in. We hope that you will heed our call rather than do your own thing. We ask that you take the time to read the statement attached as it should clarify some of our positions. Should you have any questions please feel free to write us at pacbi@pacbi.org
          http://pacbi.org/etemplate.php?id=1582

          PACBI-Artists Violating Cultural Boycott of Israel: Moral Inconsistency and Logical Incoherence
          www.facebook.com ”

          pacbi.org

          As the cultural boycott of Israel gains pace around the world, some artists, writers and cultural workers are finding it increasingly difficult to engage consistently and coherently with the arguments posed by those advocating for boycott, divestment and sanctions (BDS). Insisting on performing musi…
        • Stanley Jordan Continuing on the thought of BDS being an alliance, this makes sense to me. However, the word “solidarity” raises a bit of a red flag, especially in the way I saw it used earlier in this thread, which seemed antithetical to the concept of an alliance. It seemed that the point was being made that I was being too individualistic, and that I needed to sacrifice my individualism for the sake of solidarity. However, that is not in my nature to do. Of course I understand the value of pragmatic compromise to achieve a common goal. But If I cancel my gig, and it appears that I was bullied into it by high-pressure tactics, then my support means nothing.

          “Solidarity” raises a red flag with me because it sounds like I’m being asked to fight right-wing fascism with left-wing totalitarianism by blending into the cause, echoing the talking points, “drinking the Kool-Aid”, doing exactly as I’m told. I have built a reputation over the years of being a free thinker. There have been plenty of times that some have been displeased by choices I have made, but over time they came to see my heart.
        • Emma Rosenthal ^ HAVE you contacted them with your questions?
        • Rima Najjar Stanley, the point that was made about solidarity by Adrian Boutureira Sansberro was meant to clarify a concept, so that it would become a working concept. But this is not about semantics. Many people have told you that you can choose to do your own thing to show a sense of empathy or “an alliance” with the cause (as opposed to what is being requested of you specifically – with dignity; nobody wants charity), but they are also trying to explain that such a choice would not a. be as effective and b. would not be in solidarity in the working sense Adrian has explained.
        • Karen MacRae There couldn’t be a better affirmation of how Israel whitewashes their image than this article. And Stanley is still allowing himself to be used. Stanley, with all your talk about music as healing, does it not bother you that your healing music, the music that gives you and so many life, is being used to paint pretty daisies to conceal the crimes of those who take lives? Why do all these questions matter on BDS but the vicious conditions don’t? Why is empathy and solidarity taking a backseat because the PA doesn’t support BDS? The PA isn’t even elected. They are irrelevant. this is the same government that happily and monetarily benefits from oppressing it’s own people.http://972mag.com/marketing-israel-is-it-the-campaign-or-does-the-product-suck/63041/

          ‎972mag.com

          A study shows that Israel’s tarnished image has nothing to do with its Hasbara mechanism. Actually, the reason for the failure is pretty straightforward Some ad companies can do miracles. They can actually do the…
        • Tali Shapiro Rima Mohammad Salameh was exactly the case on my mind of course. I have to say (though totally off topic), I think the answer to his murder is not in this video, I think it’s what’s missing from this video- the audio. Why would Mohammad jump at the soldier like that, knowing it could very well mean his death? What did that soldier say to him?
        • Brian Kelly How is a nonviolent boycott “leftwing totalitarianism”? Were civil rights activists who sat in at lunch counters and boycotted segregated buses “totalitarians”?

          How is people making reasoned arguments for why you shouldn’t play in a state that exists due to apartheid, colonialism, and occupation “bullying”? Doesn’t making that claim imply that we can’t have any discussion of very important social issues? 

          No one is trying to impede on your ‘individualism’. Did anyone ask you to change your art? No. Everyone is asking you not to let your art, whatever your intentions, be used to support war, occupation, and racial apartheid. By practicing solidarity with the Palestinian people, you can still have your individualism, but, importantly, you will help free up the freedom for Palestinians, who have been denied freedom since 1948, to have *their* individualism.
        • Karen MacRae And what was the Sun City documentary if not solidarity? Why do we get to pick and choose where we apply the definition of the term?
        • Rima Najjar Yes, I have been thinking exactly in the same way about the video. The soldiers are experts at provoking young Palestinian men through demeaning insults.
        • Tali Shapiro Stanly, I feel we’re getting to that point where we repeat ourselves. Some questions you ask are fundamental to understanding the situation, those I get. I don’t get the one’s that are “devil’s advocate”. If you identify the devil, there’s no need to advocate for it. This is indeed a strange online conversation. there is no pro-Israeli here to tell you to come to the concert. I’m starting to think maybe you should speak with some, so you can hear their vacant cry for “peace, love, and healing” while Palestinians are confined to an ever-shrinking existence ripe with these people’s army’s violence. 

          If your dilemma is about what you can do to express yourself best, and this is where we’re stuck, then once more with feeling: the occupied territories has more NGOs in it per meter than any other place in the world. Feel free to contact any of them and express yourself and heal to your soul’s content, just please do not perform for the beneficiaries of apartheid, it cheapens any healing you might do. You can choose, they don’t have this privilege.
        • Stanley Jordan Emma, thanks for the PACBI link. It’s very helpful and I’m looking it over right now…
        • William Peters Jimmy Carter titled one of his most recent books, Palestine: Peace, Not Apartheid. I don’t think anyone would call a former president and Nobel Peace Prize laureate a totalitarian left winger. Nelson Mandela, Bishop Desmond Tutu, Mairead MacGuire and a number of other Nobel Peace prize laureates are also firmly against the occupation. The list, actually, is too long to for a FB post. I’m sure others can name more people. 
          Brian Kelly is right. The analogy is to the black civil rights movement or apartheid era South Africa. Millions of palestinians live under Jim Crow style laws. The wall is perhaps the single biggest blow to democracy in the last century. It was torn down in Berlin, recreated in Israel. 
          Palestinians are killed everyday. imprisoned everyday. Arrested without charge everyday, indefinitely detained everyday. You can picked up off the street and vanish. Children in Gaza are literally starving. The list of human rights abused is egregious. Every human rights organizations in the world has condemned the occupation as the United Nations in an infinite number of resolutions. 
          Whatever happens, I will say that I have much respect and love for you or any artist who so thoughtfully addresses this issue. The occupation of Palestine is the greatest crime against humanity on earth.
        • Emma Rosenthal Who is bullying you? You have asked for information and we, volunteering, from many different locations, around the world, different experiences, ethnicities, political ideologies, have answered you, your request for information. To imply that we are bullying is really insulting. Just saying. 

          Also, why is solidarity totalitarian? I don’t get that at all. 

          And in your individualism, do you think you can support Palestinian human rights on your own, by violating an international call made be all sectors of Palestinian civil society?
        • Making Change Street Newspaper Mr. Jordan, it would be more conducive if you were to cancel your Red Sea Jazz Festival performance, and THEN start a dialogue on FB. Sincerely.
        • Rima Najjar No, not bullying. But maybe I am begging a little bit.
        • Emma Rosenthal Also, what I’m unclear about is what sounds like moral equivalency– that it all “sounds like violence”. Are you saying that the Israeli governmental policies and those of a variety of disparate groups of Palestinian civilians have any moral equivalency? That these are just two separate equal sides, just fighting this out? Are you negating that one group is indeed under brutal military control in the West Bank and Gaza, as well as subjected to extreme discrimination within 1967 Israel? Do you accept that Palestinians in this context are the oppressed and that the Israeli government, with extreme support from the United States, is there perpetrator? 

          You offered the analogy of abuser and abused. Who do you identify as the abuser? as the abused? Is it wrong for the abuser to abuse? How can we, as an international community stop the abuse? Can we ever stop it by going along with the abuser’s strategy (in this case, cultureganda), to perpetuate the abuse, to appear to be a normal citizen, charming, magnanimous? 

          Do we really need to pick apart the response of the abused? Did she raise her voice too loudly? Did she hit (back)? Was her skirt too short or too long? Was she not deferential enough? Is she really the right kind of victim?

          Do you remember the boycott of South Africa? Do you remember accusations that those who opposed South African apartheid were violent, terrorists, savages? Do you remember hearing how much better Black South Africans had it over others in the region, how South Africa was the “only democracy in the region?” Do you remember the incredible pressure put on Mandela to denounce violence, in the face of extreme state violence? Do you remember bodies being thrown out of 10th story prison windows and state explanations that these deaths were suicides? Do you remember Steven Biko? Do you remember?
          23 minutes ago · Edited · Like · 3
        • Matt Graber Stanley, I do not wish to detract from the brilliant explanation of what solidarity means given by Adrian Boutureira Sansberro above. Yet, given what has been laid out before on you this thread, solidarity is but a simple expression in this instance.

          Do you believe that Palestinians deserve to be free? If you answer in the affirmative, then you accordingly should act in solidarity with Palestinians, allowing for them to lead their own liberation struggle.

          If you play the Red Sea Jazz Festival – knowing what has been explained to you here – you are answering the question with a loud and resounding “No.’
        • Making Change Street Newspaper I don’t know, I read the compelling and articulate arguments on a non-violent and relevant boycott, to fall on stone deaf ears. Already he knows that people are dying, and has not cancelled. I’m not sure why he is choosing to discuss a decision he has already made, since if he were to have pause for discussion, it would be because he is not sleeping as a guest of the oppressed.
          14 minutes ago · Like

          • Making Change Street Newspaper I don’t know, I read the compelling and articulate arguments on a non-violent and relevant boycott, to fall on stone deaf ears. Already he knows that people are dying, and has not cancelled. I’m not sure why he is choosing to discuss a decision he has already made, since if he were to have pause for discussion, it would be because he is not sleeping as a guest of the oppressed. The out is offering to reschedule the performance after the resolution of the conflict.
            10 hours ago · Edited · Like · 4
          • Tali Shapiro Making Change Street Newspaper let’s assume that Stanley has yet to have made a choice. Let’s give him the benefit of the doubt that he is hard at thought. Reading the amazing amount of information passed on to him. It takes a while for personal responsibility to click, even when you know people are dying. I take this as an honest attempt to learn. Righteous anger is a teacher I respect, but it’s a hard teacher
          • Stanley Jordan Here is a message to those who have been following this thread but not posting, especially the newbies who (like me) are just now trying to wrap their brains around this crisis. I know that what you see here makes it all look very simple: Nearly all of the comments are expressing the same point of view. But privately, I’ve been speaking with a large variety of people on both sides of this issue and in between. And the picture I am getting is far more complicated than what is revealed on this thread.
          • Making Change Street Newspaper Yes, Tali, we have all seen people waffle in the movement at large. Yet correct, he still has time to choose, a luxury. But pardon my irritable nature in seeing the hand raised to already punish the thoughtful information and kind manner put forward just dismissed as bullying. That to me signals stalling. But, if he were to cancel, it would reduce the tensions dramatically in the conversation. I see the argument that you, Emma and others so delicate and lovingly produced like flowers and candles at a vigil for humanity and hot to strike on the bullying allegation.
          • Emma Rosenthal I hope you’re right, Tali, and that we have not been asked to give our time just to have our efforts be used to demonstrate some magnanimity for a decision that is already a done deal. People don’t like to be used that way.
            10 hours ago · Like · 9
          • Rima Najjar Stanley, you say, “But privately, I’ve been speaking with a large variety of people on both sides of this issue and in between. And the picture I am getting is far more complicated than what is revealed on this thread.” I sensed this actually from your own comments. I wish, as Tali has said, that we could have heard what they were saying and had an opportunity to respond directly.
          • Rima Najjar Making the simple complicated is commonplace; making the complicated simple, awesomely simple, that’s creativity.
            10 hours ago · Like · 7
          • Emma Rosenthal Stanley as has been pointed out, there is no neutral way for you to participate in that concert. It is important not to simplify that which is complex, nor complicate that which is simple (to paraphrase Arundhati Roy), but too often we have heard “it’s complicated” as a way of avoiding the complexities– as a way of dismissing the incredible injustice. 

            Let’s assume, though, that there are 2 equally guilty and complicit parties– I don’t think that’s the case, and from what you’ve said, I don’t think you believe that either. How can you sing and dance for one without undermining the other? How can you perform for one, in their palace which they have constructed to obscure the other, and not be complicit in that obscurity? Where’s the individuality in that?
            10 hours ago · Like · 8
          • Making Change Street Newspaper As an artist, if I heard there was a boycott and people contacted me not to attend an event, because in doing so I would be choosing a side, I would articulate to the people who found me and wanted me to play – I would say that I would have postpone. Because if I play this event, during an international conflict, my actions would be held to social justice standards that could impact my career in the Art World.
          • Emma Rosenthal It does strike me as odd that those who would have made this a more challenging discussion have chosen not to air their views to the light of day.
            10 hours ago · Like · 9
          • Osie Gabriel Adelfang I am an Israeli-American Jewish woman. Please honor the boycott requested by Palestinian civil society. Slowly but surely, the boycott movement is growing, and only when forced economically will things change. Your boycott would send out a much stronger statement than participating would. Rabbi Lerner was ahead of his time when he began, but he is still very much biased towards Israel and Zionism. Where else but in Israel would we accept different laws for people based on religion and ethnicity? Was segregation a moral choice in the US (different laws, different water fountains–Israel has different laws, different roads, no rights for 1/2 of its population)? Was apartheid acceptable in South Africa (Palestinians and Israelis can’t marry, live together, hold the same jobs)? What other country based on religious law would you support? Saudi Arabia? We’ve been brainwashed (and by we–I was in school there, learning about my brave country and evil Arabs who wanted to murder us, never about how we took their land and homes–in the US it’s a less tangible, Holocaust-related brainwashing). When you ask for discussion, supporters of Israeli government will shout, Hamas, Hamas–well, we may feel strongly about W., Putin, even Saddam Hussein, but where else is it acceptable to punish a whole population–of helpless, walled-in refugees at that) for a leader or political party? They will say, “it’s complicated,” but human rights abuses aren’t complicated no matter the history, they are wrong. It’s not complicated that a 24-foot concrete wall is wrong. Settler violence is wrong, stealing land is wrong, imprisoning thousands of teenage boys in men’s prisons is wrong, dying in childbirth at checkpoints is wrong, Jews-only roads on Palestinian land is wrong. You can’t use it’s complicated as an excuse for oppression, it’s wrong. The best hope, the proven technique, the non-violent way is to support the Boycott, Sanctios, Divestment movement. Tell Israel’s government you will come when all who live there can come listen to you, when the wall comes down. Thanks for listening.
          • Sylvia Posadas A useful guide for deciphering racist rationalisations may be in order. http://www.kadaitcha.com/2012/11/06/classic-apologist-dodges-for-racists-zionists-and-bigots/

            www.kadaitcha.com

            Have you come across any of these fallacious excuses? Ubiquitous themes employed by apologists in attempts to defend, conceal and prevent racist or bigoted behaviour being exposed publicly include :
          • Matt Graber Stanley, Zionism is the belief that the land of historic Palestine is the homeland of the Jewish people. This is the core operating principle of the State of Israel – and the Jewish Agency and the Jewish National Fund, as components of the State.

            This belief has meant, functionally, the destruction of life for the hundreds of thousands of Palestinians who lived in historic Palestine prior to the foundation of Israel in 1948, and their millions of ancestors today. In order to maintain racial and ethnic dominion over the land, the State of Israel systematically removes Palestinians through brutal violence, and settles Jews on the land.

            Many Jews have historically opposed a racially Jewish state on these lands, including Albert Einstein, Hannah Arendt, and more recently Judith Butler, Tony Kushner, Alisa Solomon, and many many others who courageously break from the orthodoxy of the Jewish establishment, including many of the brilliant and eloquent contributors to this discussion on your FB wall.

            Your statement that you have Palestinian friends coming to the concert sounds incredibly disingenuous because of the incredible suffering meeted out by the State of Israel upon the Palestinian people writ large. Does your friends’ visit justify this suffering?

            Here is a provocative and inspiring video about Jews who speak out against the violence of the State of Israel: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qGtR5PTECGg

            www.youtube.com

            Open Letter Productions presents a trailer for our upcoming film “Some of My Best Friends Are Zionists”.
            9 hours ago · Edited · Unlike · 10
          • Emma Rosenthal “Many Jews have historically opposed a racially Jewish state on these lands” — including a disproportionate number of the people donating our time to this inquiry on this thread.
            10 hours ago · Like · 8
          • Making Change Street Newspaper Thanks Sylvia for the list. That’s a great and concise one!
          • Gabriel Ash [1077360635:Stanley Jordan]: I am not surprised, please read my first comment. The “complexity” you are hearing is the musak of power. What you are choosing not to hear is the anguish and daily horror of millions of people who are not on facebook. You would have heard the same “complexity” from the advocates of slavery and of every other form of instutionalized racism.
          • Emma Rosenthal You say you have a Palestinian friend who is going to the concert? Can the people you tell us you are speaking to, who are encouraging you to perform at this event, even accept that he is Palestinian? Do they even use that word? Or do they insist on referring to him/them as “Arab”, in their continued denial that Palestinians exist at all? In deed it is a complicated situation when the very existence of the Other, isn’t open for discussion.
            9 hours ago · Like · 6
          • Osie Gabriel Adelfang Stanley, regarding “spin,” I don’t understand how boycotting apartheid can be spun into isolating Jews! I am a Jew, I’m not isolated by it. Many of the respondents here are Jews. Some of us are Israeli. We aren’t ring isolated. Isolate Israel as a political entity committing atrocities and perpetuating a brutal occupation? That is why boycott works. You are getting the argument confused when you interchange “the Jews” and “israel’s apartheid system,” and it’s a dangerous confusion. It is dangerous to Jews to be thought if as one unit, complicit, supportive of, part of Israel’s brutal occupation. A Jew is someone who identifies as being Jewish. An israeli is a person with Israeli citizenship, whether they support or fight their government, and we are talking about neither. We are boycotting Israel as an apartheid/Zionist state, its laws, and its supporters, be they Jewish, or Christisn US leaders or Christian Zionist donors, or Muslim leaders that profit from the occupation–that is who justice and democracy are up against. Not Jews.
            9 hours ago · Unlike · 9
          • Emma Rosenthal Both Zionists and White supremacists conflate Jews with Israel. Israel is a form of imperialist nationalism, but they don’t represent me just because White supremacists and Zionists say they do.
            9 hours ago · Like · 9
          • Rima Najjar I have always thought that such Palestinians (like your Palestinian friend who is going to the concert) have the Stockholm Syndrome. I have often wondered what kind of person I would have turned into had I stayed as “an Arab” in what became Israel, rather than being born in the Diaspora.
            9 hours ago · Edited · Unlike · 6
          • Making Change Street Newspaper If its so complicated, Mr. Jordan , why open for discussion? why not identify the problem? Everyone here has tackled this same complicated problem set. there are solutions to many complicated problems. Just reading the problem top face, it seems some people are willing to transport you for a performance a long way, placing you in a literal war zone. personally I would have safety issues with a job offer like that.
            9 hours ago · Edited · Unlike · 6
          • Osie Gabriel Adelfang Please go to the website of the U.S. Campaign to end the Occupation and that of its Jewish national coordinator Anna Baltzer, listen to Jewish people that have witnessed the situation on the ground and are asking you to support the boycott. Read Amita Hass, Israeli journalist for aha areas, or Gideon Levy. If you posted for the reason you said you did–to learn–not to find support/excuses for going. Which is it? People have given you a lot of resources, if you really want to be educated, get educated. If you become truly educated, you will know whether to honor the boycott for yourself, no spin worries.
            9 hours ago · Unlike · 6
          • Andy Griggs Stanley, if you accept that the situation is “too complicated” then I really don’t see how you can justify performing in this event. Performing in this event is to take sides, because this event is essentially part of the foreign policy and public relations strategy, the PUBLISHED policy and public relations strategy of this regime.
            9 hours ago · Unlike · 7
          • Gabriel Ash [1077360635:Stanley Jordan]: There is an adolescent attitude that consists of identifying reason with compulsion. “I understand X is right, but since I was informed about it by others, to accept the consequences is derogatory to my freedom and individualism.” Grown ups see truth coming from others as growth, not as an attack on their individuality. We are not “bullying” you, since we have no power over you but to express our views. The idea that you should listen to what Palestinians ask rather than tell them what you think they should ask is no different from any other idea expressed here. It is argued and submitted to your reason. If you see its logic you should accept it. By doing you, you are only yielding to the pressure of your own capacity to reason. So here is the argument in a nutshell. How would you feel if people you asked for help came back and told you how to organize your life, and forced on you “help” that you don’t ask for and that you consider abusive? We are not asking you to submit to force by being in “solidarity,” but to see the logic of mutual respect that requires all of us to respect the people we want to help as subjects, and not as playground for OUR narcissistic investment. If you understand the ethics of the situation you should want to help Palestinians achieve justice and equality. And if you want to help, you should ask what kind of help Palestinians are asking from you most, and do that. Since you asked, you were told that the most significant thing you can do as an artist is take a stand by joining the cultural boycott. The worst thing you can do is normalize apartheid by playing in Israel. If you follow the conclusion to this argument, you “yield” only to reason.
            9 hours ago · Unlike · 7
          • Stanley Jordan To Making Change Street Newspaper , regarding the issue of bullying, my whole point was that if it appears that I was bullied into my decision to cancel, the decision has no credibility. Don’t you agree with that? You talk about your irritable nature in response to my statements, but all I’m asking for is help working through this. I have repeatedly thanked people for their patience and their information, and I really do mean that. Remember, I’m a newbie on this issue. I never accused anyone of bullying me. I know that it’s a serious issue and your passion is understandable. But when you openly express irritability (which is low-level anger) toward me regarding this whole conversation, then it may appear to some like bullying, which may cause them to question the sincerity of my decision should I choose to cancel–that’s all I was saying. I have been honest all along, and I never guaranteed that if you spend enough time discussing this with me I’ll cancel my gig. And Emma, regarding your comments about the decision being a done deal, you are right in the sense that the gig is booked–the decision was months ago. And now you are trying to talk me out of that decision, and you are making very good points, and I am listening. But I have to admit, it’s getting harder and harder to sort this all out, because the more I learn the more confusing it gets.
            9 hours ago · Unlike · 2
          • Matt Graber Stanley Jordan, I’m hurt by the way in which you have deceived the people who are commenting on this thread, including myself.

            On December 27 at 4:10pm, you wrote: “One result of all this diligence: The world will know that any action I take in support of the Palestinian People is freely chosen, sincere, and not coerced in any way.”

            Now you state: “But privately, I’ve been speaking with a large variety of people on both sides of this issue”

            Why did you lie to us and create an “open” discussion space, and then engage in discussions on the very same topic behind the scenes?
            9 hours ago · Edited · Unlike · 6
          • Tali Shapiro Sylvia that’s great! Do you know the Derailing for Dummies guide?http://birdofparadox.wordpress.com/derailing-for-dummies-google-cache-reconstruction/

            Stanley, really? Have we been demonstrating a simplistic point of view? I’m a citizen of Israel that the state identifies as Jewish (though spiritually speaking I’m a spiritual atheist- a very marginalized identity) and I reject the state endowing me with privileges over the lives of the indigenous population. I ask that institutions that are said to be built for my protection/enrichment be recognized for what they truly are: erasers of identity and that identity’s genocide. That’s as nuanced as it gets, really. Unless you want me to get even more personal and lair it on. Simple it is NOT. But it isn’t complicated either- just complex. A little focused concentration and all the nuances can be put together into one wide and deep story.
            9 hours ago · Edited · Unlike · 8
          • Rima Najjar Stanley, you say: “But I have to admit, it’s getting harder and harder to sort this all out, because the more I learn the more confusing it gets.” That’s so difficult to deal with, because it is a no-win situation. The more infor we give you (at your request) the more confused you get. If we don’t provide the information, then you are uninformed.
            9 hours ago · Unlike · 7
          • Making Change Street Newspaper Well Stanley, I understand your frustration. It’s very complicated, no doubt you are correct about that. It’s not bullying if people are staying persistent and intelligent, which everyone here is. Bullying is the pressure you are feeling from someone in your life that you are unable to confidently articulate your uncomfortable feelings about canceling or rescheduling the performance. You can find help with this. There are many positive ways to deal with this problem. Identifying the wall you are up against, even metaphorically can allow the mind solidarity to resolve it. I apologize for saying Mr. Stanley and not Mr. Jordan lol, my auto friend keeps popping up and I was trying to block it out. The Navajo family I live with are Stanley’s. lol. you are still here. There’s something inside deep that you care about but you are in conflict. You can do this.
            9 hours ago · Edited · Unlike · 6
          • Andy Griggs Likewise, if you have made up your mind to go, and this has been simply an exercise in futility– the illusion of discourse– some testament to magnanimity, people will be offended and hurt that our time has been used to create that illusion.
            9 hours ago · Unlike · 7
          • Matt Graber To add to what Rima Najjar has just said: if you’re engaged in private discussions, then who’s to tell if what your told is factually correct? I can certainly understand why it would be confusing to be lied to, and not know it.

            I wish you had invited those in private discussions to comment on your OPEN discussion, so that others could address their concerns.
            9 hours ago · Edited · Unlike · 7
          • William Peters Artists like Stanley Jordan should be commended and shown much love for their willingness to take on and think through this issue. I am moved beyond words by your openness and willingness to struggle together and share your views on such a complex issue with the world at large. This is an incredibly brave and powerful act, which, in and of itself, is respectful and affirming of the Palestinian struggle for freedom. Respect.
          • Brian Kelly If people in favour of you going to Israel aren’t brave enough to express their opinions in the open, then you should post a list of what their arguments are. That would go a long way to solving any complications.
            9 hours ago · Unlike · 7
          • Sylvia Posadas Stanley: “But I have to admit, it’s getting harder and harder to sort this all out, because the more I learn the more confusing it gets.”

            One of the classic hasbara (zionist propaganda) points, Stanley, and number 15 on the racist dodges list I posted above is ‘It’s complicated’. 

            It’s not complicated at all. What could be more obvious and ethical than to stand alongside oppressed Palestinians, where one does no harm to their non-violent boycott for justice and rights. Please cancel.
            8 hours ago · Edited · Unlike · 8
          • William Peters Here’s something uncomplicated. And in the world’s most authoritative paper!. A child, walking through his own town, alone, on his birthday. Forced to go through an extremely dangerous check point manned with soldiers armed to the teeth. Shot and killed on his way to buy a cake. 
            http://thelede.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/12/27/new-video-of-fatal-shooting-at-west-bank-checkpoint-shows-officers-final-shot/

            thelede.blogs.nytimes.com

            Newly released footage of the fatal shooting of a 17-year-old Palestinian at a checkpoint in the occupied West Bank this month appears to show that an Israeli officer fired at least three shots at the boy after he had already retreated.
            9 hours ago · Like · 2
          • Rima Najjar William Peters: Many here have expressed this same sentiment and thanked Stanley for opening up the discussion and for his “willingness to take on and think through this issue”. But I, for one, don’t wish to patronize him by not addressing the issues he raises honestly and directly. One thing we can all agree on, in addition to Stanley’s God given talent as a musician, is that he is intelligent and we need to respect that fact as we talk to him.
            9 hours ago · Unlike · 6
          • Making Change Street Newspaper Sometimes a manager, family member or business partner may resist a cancellation. There are ways to effectively and positively engage this line of reasoning. You are the Artist. artists are given leeway. Like the epoch musician who cancelled his performance what was it, last month, who has the article? He honored the boycott and I’m sure someone in this campaign could assist you with relevant artists who faced this same boycott recently.
            9 hours ago · Unlike · 4
          • William Peters Correction. The young boy was shot once and then, after he was clearly disabled and nearly on the ground, he was shot twice more. The Israelis lied about this until this video was accidentally leaked. Think of all the black children in America killed for no reason. that’s the analogy, plain and simple. That a semblance of democracy exists for the ruling class proves the point. Jim Crow. Apartheid. Just as lethal and unust.
            9 hours ago · Edited · Unlike · 3
          • Sylvia Posadas Thanks, Tali, for the Derailing link – I’ll add it to my resources on the dodges page.
            9 hours ago · Unlike · 6
          • Brian Kelly “I am and have always been against war, any war, anywhere.”

            http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/12/01/stevie-wonder-israel-defense-forces-concert-idf_n_2223590.html

            www.huffingtonpost.com

            WASHINGTON — Stevie Wonder is calling off a concert for a group that raises money for the Israeli military. Wonder had been scheduled to perform Dec. 6 for Friends of the Israel Defense Forces, which raises money for Israeli soldiers and their families.
          • Making Change Street Newspaper ouch Brian, you got me on seconds for this post.
            9 hours ago · Edited · Unlike · 2
          • Roland Rance Stanley Jordan: 
            > the picture I am getting is far more complicated 
            > than what is revealed on this thread

            It’s true that there are many complexities in this situation, and that a surfeit of uncontextualised information could overwhelm you. But the conflict is at heart very simple, and does not require any equivocation. When invited to address members of Parliament in the House of Commons a few years back, I opened by saying “The great Jewish teacher Hillel the Elder, a contemporary of Jesus, was once asked to sum up the whole of Jewish law while standing on one foot. He is said to have replied ‘That which is hateful to you, do not unto another: This is the whole Torah. The rest is commentary’. If I were to be challenged similarly to sum up the conflict in Palestine in one sentence, I would reply that it is the liberation struggle of an oppressed people against a colonial settler society which has displaced and subjugated it; the rest is commentary.” http://www.l-r-c.org.uk/policy/discussion/palestine-future-peace

            Please focus on the essentials. The Palestinian people have been dispossessed and oppressed for decades. They are struggling for their liberation, and it is not our task to lecture them on how to do this. They are asking for our support; and, in particular, they are asking artists like you not to give aid and encouragement to the institutions of the state which is oppressing them. You have the free choice to accept this request for solidarity, or to reject it. All else is commentary.

            www.l-r-c.org.uk

            The LRC Anti-War Commission has published a series of discussion papers following the third in its series of seminars, on Palestine. Let us know your views by adding your comments below or emailing (JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address).
            9 hours ago · Unlike · 7
          • Rima Najjar I hope and believe (can the two go together?) that Stanley will honor the boycott. If he doesn’t, I hope (and believe) that he will at least not insult us by giving a spurious rationalization.
            9 hours ago · Unlike · 6
          • Adrian Boutureira Sansberro Dear Stanley…With all due respect, it no longer feels like you are placing legitimate questions before us about the boycott movement, but presenting us with hypothetical and unanswerable obstacles that, again very respectfully meant, seem to me to reflect that you are not looking for real answers at this point, but grasping at straws to justify not having to honor the call to boycott the festival. 

            Even after every possible argument that could have been made by all who have partaken in this process, delineating the issues of justice, REAL peace, equality, solidarity and BDS, You honestly feel you need to ask us if the BDS disavows violence and that that is a valid question?

            What about the BDS movement even hints at violence to you? And like someone pointed out earlier, if what you are asking is if the BDS movement, as a whole, condemns any and all actions of violent resistance taken by any Palestinians against their oppressors, then I don’t think you have really understood most critical things that have been said here about BDS, nor the impossibility of anyone supporting justice in Palestine, BDS activist or not, to honestly answer you with a definite yes or no. 

            Since we are already dealing with the hyper speculative, let me ask you a hypothetical question then, to see if your commitment to non violence is as great as what you appear to be demanding of the Palestinians asking you and others to support BDS. Could you say, in complete honesty, that in a situation where after non violently trying to stop another person from killing your father or mother, or son and daughter and not succeeding, that you would NEVER consider engaging in an violent act to prevent that from happening? Would what I think you should and should not do at that particular time to save your dear one is as valid as what you deemed necessary to have to do? 

            Let me try to clarify the thing that I see as most critical for anyone to understand about your question on disavowing violence, including you:

            It is not up to those who internationally support BDS, which is without a doubt a totally non-violent solidarity movement, to dictate to one of the most unjustly oppressed, violated, humiliated, disrespected, persecuted peoples in the planet today how it is they need to oppose their tormentors!!!

            You mean to honestly tell me that you, or me, or anyone else here have the moral certainty and authority, from our position of complete privilege, to sit there in front of a Palestinian person who’s life has been destroyed by the barbarity of a brutal enemy, whose whole family has perhaps been intentionally blown to pieces, that armed resistance is offensive to us and amoral and that we can not support them in any way, if that’s what they feel they have to do to defend themselves? 

            I don’t know about you, but I personally would not have the gall to presume to know what it is that person needs or does not need to do to fend off her oppressors, much less feel I have the authority to give them quasi moralistic ultimatums and directives. This is exactly what I was referring to in my prior post. THIS is what supremacy looks like! In this case disguised under some rather grossly misunderstood notions of what has been the history and relationships between violent and non violent struggles against oppression…Even the principle of radical pacifism takes into account that violence will be part of the equation, as radical pacifism WILL be met with violence by the oppressor! How many people died in peaceful civil disobedience in India while Gandhi professed non-violence? Ghandi was perfectly aware he was sending people off to their violent deaths at the hands of the British occupiers! So, to speak about this false dichotomy of violence vs non violence in a total contextual, historical and empirical facts vacuum, is well, really underinformed and misinformed at best, and intentionally disingenuous at worst. 

            Most importantly, there is no need to even go there. If you believe in the promise of non-violence resistance against injustice, then you support radical non violent option, such as a vigorous and disciplined boycott against the interests of those you have in your mind been identified as the oppressor and not the oppressed. You don’t undermine these actions so that they fail and put even more pressure on the oppressed to have to continue to find other than non-violent options and means to try to achieve justice.

            Now, if it’s not clear to you, in your mind and from your own research, observations, and study as to who is the oppressor and who is the oppressed in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, then I can promise you that, as sad and disappointing as that would be, there is absolutely nothing that either I nor anyone else here can tell you that will convince you that respecting the boycott is the correct thing to do.

            In my mind, and without a doubt, history, facts, international opinion, and justice adn peace itself speak very clearly as to who is the oppressor and who is oppressed. Supporting the boycott is not only the morally correct non-violent course of action to follow to be in solidarity with the Palestinian people’s struggle for justice against it’s brutal oppressor, but it is the only viable non violent way of any significant political impact.

            Solidaridad,

            Adrian Boutureira
            8 hours ago · Edited · Unlike · 13
          • Making Change Street Newspaper You never promised you would cancel, Stanley, because you aren’t the only decision maker right? There are contractual language issues that can be highlighted and defined to affirmatively resolve this without penalization to you or your organizers. You were not aware that the group that is scheduling these peformances was conducting an active war propaganda strategy. You and many other artists have gotten hooked into this debacle. It is their fault you are in this predicament, because they have booked many others with failure.
            9 hours ago · Unlike · 7
          • Emma Rosenthal Stanley, you write: “And Emma, regarding your comments about the decision being a done deal, you are right in the sense that the gig is booked–the decision was months ago. And now you are trying to talk me out of that decision, and you are making very good points, and I am listening. But I have to admit, it’s getting harder and harder to sort this all out, because the more I learn the more confusing it gets.” — And the people who booked you, knew all of this. They were well aware of the state use of culture as a tool of propaganda and normalization. They knew people would approach you and in one tone or another ask “What the hell are you doing, man?”. They knew you, being principled, would be torn between doing the right thing and honoring your contract. They knew you would be bombarded with information and counter information. They knew all of this. And they didn’t disclose ANY of that to you, apparently. Which is a major breach of contract and hugely misrepresentative of the agreement you were entering into. I’d be a bit angry, if I were you.
            9 hours ago · Like · 10
          • Tali Shapiro Stanley, it would only appear that you’ve been bullied if you testify that it was so. I guess we could hold up this conversation as our own testimony that it wasn’t. But I’d also point out that “BDS bullying” is also the new tactic to tarnish the movements image. Often it’s called “terrorizing” to maximize effect (and I’ve already spoken about the racism inherent in the use of that term, within our political context). The minimum we can ask from you, in regards to that, is the decency not to draw us up that way. But I digress, can we talk about the complicity of the Red Sea Jazz Festival with the occupation, again? And if it’s basic questions you still need answers to, go ahead and ask. I’ll skip my night of sleep and answer all of them, one by one (what the hey, it’s just one night out of the years of struggle to come). You can even lay out, as Brian suggested these arguments which make it more confusing, rather than being stuck with them, not knowing how to deconstruct them. That’s what we’re here for. So lay’em on and we’ll see how much water they hold, when actually put to task.

            In the meantime, on the introductory level I recommend Occupation 101http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1rSd9HuPZYU (you’ll find parts 1-10 on the sidebar) and Peace, Propaganda and The Promised Landhttp://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLA167244AFCB71BF7

            For more about “how it all began” I recommend http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bm7dMhE80dw
          • Making Change Street Newspaper Do you need a volunteer attorney to review and make recommendations on the contract?
            9 hours ago · Unlike · 6
          • Rima Najjar I’ll happily join you with your night watch, Tali Shapiro.
            9 hours ago · Unlike · 7
          • Emma Rosenthal I would also like to address something we haven’t talked about, but that you are probably hearing via private channels– that we are somehow singling out Israel. Most of us have been activists for a very long time on many issues. We raise human rights issues in any number of contexts. Here you meet us in the context of Palestinian human rights. As a human rights activist for many decades now, who has worked on any number of causes and in solidarity with many struggles, to not criticize Israel and defend Palestinian human rights would mean I was singling out Israel.

            In this context, those who demand a different standard for Israel– that it somehow be free from criticism or scrutiny– they are the ones who are singling out Israel. 

            Also, for those who might have claimed we are anti-semitic or self hating Jews, I love being Jewish. It is an essential part of my identity. I just don’t see how establishing hegemony over Palestinians is an expression of that love. I do not think that criticizing Zionism– as a settler colonialist narrative, or Israel, as a state whose actions are either supportable or not, makes someone anti-Jewish. Most Zionists aren’t Jews (surprisingly), and many Jews aren’t Zionists.
            9 hours ago · Like · 11
          • Tali Shapiro “Even the principle of radical pacifism takes into account that violence will be part of the equation, as radical pacifism WILL be met with violence by the oppressor!.. If you believe in the promise of non-violence resistance against injustice, then you support radical non violent option, such as a vigorous and disciplined boycott against the interests of those you have in your mind been identified as the oppressor and not the oppressed. You don’t undermine these actions so that they fail and put even more pressure on the oppressed to have to continue to find other than non-violent options and means to try to achieve justice.” @Adrian you rock my radical pacifist world
          • Making Change Street Newspaper I personally had to cancel an art display, at the Wiesenthal Center in Los Angeles, who had offered to allow us to display photos of radical actions where Police Violence was incorporated against the homeless and also the American Indian Movement in the Big Mountain mining issue. I was told that we could not use the word genocide in regards to Native American issues. It broke my heart, for my respect and participation in past campaigns with the Wiesenthal Center. It was a great opportunity as well. Its hard to make a decision to cancel. On many levels. I was highly criticized for not eliminating the Native component and continuing with just the display on homelessness. I was even called anti-semetic for comparing the homeless situation with the crisis with Palestine.
            8 hours ago · Edited · Unlike · 6
          • Emma Rosenthal I personally am very offended at efforts to use the history of Jewish suffering to perpetuate the suffering of others. The idea that Native Americans did not experience genocide, that there could ever be any other word for what happened, is outrageous.The way some groups attempt to define the parameters of others’ expressions of their experiences and to limit discussions is truly reprehensible.
            8 hours ago · Edited · Like · 10
          • Rima Najjar I know in my bones all that Adrian is saying and I know that it’s true. But, in a million years, I wouldn’t have known how to say it so clearly.
            8 hours ago · Unlike · 9
          • Rima Najjar We’re not seeing it here, though, Emma – I mean the parts of the argument that you think Stanley is hearing in private. Is that what you are hearing, Stanley, that is confusing the issue for you?
            8 hours ago · Edited · Unlike · 7
          • Emma Rosenthal There’s a lot here, we’re not seeing. The absence of Zionist argument on this thread is strangely conspicuous.
            8 hours ago · Like · 9
          • Roland Rance But Emma’s concern seems to be that they are derailing this discussion offstage, without even having the courage and honesty to post here and take part in open discussion.
            8 hours ago · Unlike · 9
          • Rima Najjar After 506 posts (this being the 507th), it would be truly confusing if we have to start all over again, when Stanley is about to announce a decision in a few hours. I don’t think they would go through much of them, if any, before starting the derailing, if that’s yet to happen.
            8 hours ago · Edited · Like · 8
          • Making Change Street Newspaper Well someone let me know if volunteer attorney’s are required. I’m sure we all know someone who can help him make the contractual leap. But I have a few numbers too.
            8 hours ago · Like · 3
          • Matt Graber Stanley, are you contractually obligated to engage us in a farcical “open” conversation? What obligations do you have to those who you are engaged with in private conversations in concealing their identities? Are you currently employed by the State of Israel, or will that only come when you participate in the Red Sea Jazz Festival?
            8 hours ago · Like · 4
          • Matt Graber Stanley Jordan, my questions on this thread have not been rhetorical. In the spirit of open debate and discussion, I hope you’ll answer some of my questions, as only you can clarify for us your position in engaging in this conversation. Thank you.
            7 hours ago · Like · 4
          • Stanley Jordan Emma, you said, “There’s a lot here, we’re not seeing. The absence of Zionist argument on this thread is strangely conspicuous.” I think you make a good point. When I started this thread there were lots of posts telling me not to cancel, mostly apparently from fans who knew me just through my music and believe that playing my music is good for the world no matter where I play. Since then we have not heard so much from them because either: 1. They have been persuaded by the arguments to cancel, or 2. They do not feel comfortable opposing the overwhelming sentiment that is being posted here, or maybe some combination of the two. 

            At one point we had Stephen, who advised against cancelling, and presented some information very different from most of the other posts here and he was attacked as a Zionist and called a liar without much point by point refutation of his actual assertions. I think he only made one post, and I don’t blame him if he was not in the mood for engaging more in the discussion, as the sentiment seemed to be clearly against him. On the other hand, I had a feeling that his use of the term “Palestinians” in quotes may have ruffled a few feathers. I was always taught that one should call people what they wish to be called, unless there is some overwhelming reason not to. Perhaps he was making the technical point that there is no official Palestinian state, and many folks have no way to get passports, but I can’t speak for him.

            And yes, I’ve been privately hearing opinions on both side of this issue, and I must admit, that is part of what is making my decision so difficult. I hope you can all understand and I hope you believe me that I really am sincerely trying to figure this out. If there is anyone who is reading this and wants me to keep my engagement, or even if you just agree that there are two sides to the issue, I wish you would join the discussion. It has been passionate, but respectful and I will do my best to keep it that way. Look, I never had any intentions of getting into this kind of but the truth is, there really are two sides and it really is very confusing.
          • Rima Najjar Stanley, my first message to you way, way, way up there: 
            Dear Stanley:
            I would like to reiterate Gabriel Ash’s point that ‘the conflict in Palestine does not have “two sides.”’ It simply doesn’t – not in the sense that the two sides have legitimate grievances, and in order to resolve them we should hear both sides and find a solution in the middle. I am a Palestinian who does not live in Israel/Palestine simply because I cannot. I don’t have a choice like Gabriel, because I am not Jewish. I hope very much that you will heed the Palestinain call to boycott the event. I believe boycott and divestment is the only chance left for us to effect change in Israel (as happened in South Africa). Israel is officially an apartheid, racist, settler colonialist entity in the heart of the Middle East. The political process will never, ever effect change and the power equation is so uneven. Please help us.
            7 hours ago · Like · 7
          • William Clack Stanley, I applaud you for encouraging this open discussion.
            7 hours ago · Like · 1
          • Rima Najjar Stephen’s point #1: “you [Stanley] aren’t going to Israel to play in a Jazz festival because of political ideology. You plan to go and share your talent with music lovers and regular people. This boycott and the pressure that is being exerted on musicians to boycott is over the line and intrusive.” True, you aren’t, but the institutional structure with which you have affiliated yourself is openly ideological in its purpose.
            7 hours ago · Unlike · 7
          • Emma Rosenthal The reason people put “Palestinians” in quotes, is to assert that no such people exists. Imagine people being upset by the assertion that an entire people is fictitious. 

            We have entered these threads before. There has been no shortage of those who would counter us with much of what you say you are hearing behind the scenes. I don’t agree that people have been attacked without any refutation. Perhaps you should reread the thread, since I think we’ve provided ample information.
            7 hours ago · Like · 8
          • Emma Rosenthal Zionism is an ideology. Zionists don’t consider it an insult.
            7 hours ago · Like · 7
          • Rima Najjar Stephen’s point #2: “The suggestion that anyone who does not go along with the boycott is in some way less of a human being is plain wrong.” Not less of a human being, but perhaps less of a mensch: “”mensch” does generally mean “a good person,” but this Yiddish term also goes much deeper. In fact, it is steeped with Jewish concepts of what it means to be an individual of integrity.”
            7 hours ago · Unlike · 5
          • Matt Graber Stanley, on this thread you’ve heard from Palestinians, Jews, Arabs, Christians, Muslims, Israelis, European-American settlers, Australians, Native Indians, and many others. The lines for your “two sides” are not drawn by any sort of ethnic, religious, or other identities, but are the oppressors and the oppressed, the colonizers and the colonized. We are asking you to clarify: which side are you on?
          • Emma Rosenthal One of Stephen’s points was to claim that we were saying that people who didn’t go along with the boycott were less human, “

            He said: The suggestion that anyone who does not go along with the boycott is in some way less of a human being is plain wrong. You folks have your point of view. You are entitled to it. “

            NO ONE SAID THAT. And I did call him out on that. Instead of apologizing, he’s erased his posts or blocked some of us. He’s not the victim here. He blatantly said people were asserting that some were more human than others. His was an essentially dishonest argument, a complete misrepresentation of what had been said on this thread and the values of those who allegedly said it.

            The idea that engaging in honest debate is bullying is an interesting accusation, and we’ve seen it before.
            7 hours ago · Edited · Like · 9
          • Sylvia Posadas Stanley, what do you consider is the strongest argument made by those who oppose the Palestinian-led boycott?
            7 hours ago · Unlike · 8
          • Rima Najjar Stephen’s point #3: “Israel was given a right to exist by the British. The UN recognized that back in 1948. The Brits gave most of Palestine to Arabs. In 1967 Israel was forced to go to war to defend themselves against an alliance that was out to eradicate them, etc.” is simply a misreading of history, fraught with terms that do not acknowledge the settler colonial nature of the new state, the ethnic cleansing that had to take place in order for such a state to exist as a Jewish State in the first place. It’s pure Zionist rhetoric that the Palestinians have been up against from the get go.
            7 hours ago · Unlike · 7
          • Emma Rosenthal And what do you consider the strongest argument of those of us who call for the boycott?
            7 hours ago · Like · 7
          • Rima Najjar Stephen’s point #4: “Israel takes better care of the “Palestinians” than any other nation in the Middle East.” SIMPLY NOT TRUE. This thread has posted Ben Whites latest book and other resources to support that. And even if it were true, there are still the Palestinians in the West Bank under occupation, the Gazans under a blockade, the refugees in umpteen refugee camps in surrounding other countries as well as the West bank and Gaza, some of them having been displaced more than once and there are the Palestinians in Jerusalem and the Palestinians in the Diaspora.
            7 hours ago · Unlike · 5
          • Rima Najjar Stephen’s point #5: “the bottom line is this, Stanley, you have a right to feel free to travel to see any set of people on Earth and perform for them.” I don’t dispute that; you certainly have that right, endowed to you by the creator and these United States of America. Palestinians don’t have such a right.
            7 hours ago · Unlike · 5
          • Making Change Street Newspaper The entire point of relocation is the diminished status of the conquered to retain right to the traditional use of the residences and religious sites, physically, economically, socially, religiously, and politically. Then the diminished capacity to assert their former rights as the children come of vocalizing age.
            7 hours ago · Unlike · 4
          • Stanley Jordan Matt, I have no connection to the Israeli state. And my assumption all along has been that the Red Sea Jazz Festival is a cultural and artistic organization that is not political or military. Someone earlier sent me a link to sponsors but it was in Hebrew and I could not read it. But please don’t go “conspiracy” on me. I’m just a guitar player, trying to play my music and hopefully spread a little love and inspiration along the way.
          • Paul Turner Stanley 
            Ask yourself one simple question:- If Israel is so interested in peace, why does it continue to ignore the terms of the 4th Geneva convention, to which it is a signatory, and build civilian structures on occupied land?
            6 hours ago · Unlike · 7
          • Stanley Jordan I’ve been accused of peddling New Age mumbo jumbo and not dealing with the serious reality on the ground simply because I insist that the inner (subjective) and spiritual world is important. But Rima, the book you recommended proposed a one-state solution. There is no way that can work unless people are getting along. Something has to be done to ease the tensions. That’s why I started with the Michael Lerner book, because his point was that a change in consciousness is needed. Of course the reality on the ground needs to be addressed. but that’s not my domain as a musician.
          • Making Change Street Newspaper I’m still confused Stanley, dang this auto friend pop up. Are you saying you are looking for a solution to the Palestine-Isreal conflict to cancel your event, or a solution to cancel the event?
          • Rima Najjar Stanley, you say, “I’m just a guitar player, trying to play my music and hopefully spread a little love and inspiration along the way.” That’s a bit disingenuous in the context of this discussion. If you are just a guitar player outside the virulent context of Israel’s normalizing itself through its Brand Israel program, why are we having this conversation?
            6 hours ago · Unlike · 6
          • Roland Rance Stanley Jordan: 
            > Someone earlier sent me a link to sponsors but 
            > it was in Hebrew

            The sponsors on the list are Eilat Municipality, Ministry of Culture and Sport, Ministry of Tourism, Eilat Hotels Association, Isrotel, Recaniti Winery and Eilat Tourist Bureau. This is clearly an officially sponsored event. Elsewhere on the site, it states specifically, in English, “The Red Sea Jazz Festival established in 1987 as a four day international jazz festival, initiated by Eilat city hall aid by Ministry of Culture, Ministry of Tourism, Eilat Sea Port, Eilat Hotel Association and various business sponsors.” http://www.redseajazzeilat.com/en/about/

            6 hours ago · Unlike · 6
          • Oscar Deric Brown Happy New Stanley Jordan ….On about going to Israel to perform. Something I talked to Dizzy Gillespie about, was why he was going to Cuba, when the US and the rest of the world had and would not recognize Cuba’s right to exist.
          • Making Change Street Newspaper at the monkey’s bar? that is pretty borderline offensive.
          • Oscar Deric Brown Dizzy said simply, Art does not need politics.
          • Oscar Deric Brown It is the Artist or Musicians responsibility to carry the message of peace……We go where we are needed.
          • Rima Najjar Stanley: I am sorry if I hurt your feelings with my use of “mumbo jumbo”. It wasn’t meant to belittle your belief system, but rather to reflect my inability to understand, as I said, how the application of the New Age framework can possibly relate to what’s going “on the ground” here. You say Ali Abunimah’s proposal needs a prerequisite: “Something has to be done to ease the tensions” first. Ali proposes two things to ease the tensions or for both parties to think the unthinkable. One is for the Palestinians to formulate an inclusive vision and the other for Israel to be made to feel, through a South African style BDS movement, that there is a cost to its actions. Right now ONE STATE does exist. It’s what we have on the ground. Only it is an apartheid, racist state.
            6 hours ago · Edited · Like · 5
          • Karen MacRae Well, Stanley, you can peddle all the new age stuff all you like. What we are saying what good is the new age mumbo jumbo if a large chunk of the population can’t even go to listen to it? And it kind of defeats the whole spirituality mission to peddle mumbo jumbo new age stuff that is officially painting over horrendous and massive crimes of humanity. I don’t think even the Dali Lama himself could put a spin on that.
            6 hours ago · Like · 7
          • Oscar Deric Brown You are and have always been a messenger.
          • Making Change Street Newspaper oscar we go where we are needed, within the context of social justice. we don’t go when there are human rights boycotts or war or abuses.
            6 hours ago · Like · 1
          • Oscar Deric Brown It is one of the manny things I learned from you.
          • William Peters Oscar, that’s a radical and powerful political move Dizzy made, however much he might not have said so. In fact, it’s rather similar in the sense that he was standing up to the occupier and colonist. Going to Cuba when no one else would. Boycotting Israel when no one else would. 
            The analogy would be if he did not go; did what everyone else was doing and supported the status quo. Performing in Israel is supporting the status quo. Boycotting Israel would be the equal to Dizzy’s move.
            6 hours ago · Edited · Like · 7
          • Karen MacRae Oscar, i’d like to remind you that Stanley Jordan played on a political documentary exposing the crimes of the apartheid conditions in South Africa and standing in solidarity with the oppressed. if he thought his music could bring peace, he could have easily played instead. However, he did not.
            6 hours ago · Edited · Unlike · 10
          • Matt Graber Thank you for clarifying that, Roland. Stanley Jordan, as this shows, as an artist playing at the Red Sea Jazz Festival, you will be employed by the festival and its sponsors, and in this context you will be working on behalf of the State, and used to whitewash their crimes. If you aren’t already, then you will be. There is nothing conspiratorial about that. What I do find conspiratorial is the fact that you’re engaged in private conversations with parties who have sympathies for the Israeli apartheid government. If you bear witness to what that government has done, and what they are doing to Palestinians, how can you bear these affiliations?

            Wonderful question, Rima Najjar! Stanley, if you are “just an artist,” why are we having this conversation? We believe that you can be so much more than somebody who plays as they are told to play!
            6 hours ago · Like · 9
          • Gabriel Ash Stanley Jordan: I am not ridiculing your belief system, but as I pointed out previously, all belief systems worth their salt measure people by their actions. “By their fruits you shall know them,” that’s one example. It is not “ridicule,” it is pointing out the emptiness and shallowness of a belief system that authorizes the believer to eschew responsibility for the consequences of one’s actions and inactions. Unfortunately, that’s seems to me endemic to “new age spirituality,” although examples of adepts of other spiritual traditions using their “faith” as an excuse instead of as a demand are not unheard of.
          • Making Change Street Newspaper and don’t forget, it says right on the web page that you will be playing in a venue, where there is a “monkey bar”? I’m sorry, but that is just rank. Just like NBC & Bing, portraying monkey commercials and images during the olympics. Its thinly veiled and upon accepting it complacently, indicates a desensitization that is known to cause damage to all artistic expression and ability. Thank you Roland for the post on the Red Sea Festival. That adds perspective and contrast. I can see the headlines now, see Stanley Jordan at the Monkey Bar.
            5 hours ago · Edited · Unlike · 3
          • Emma Rosenthal STanley, a one state solution was found in South Africa. The 2 state solution was rejected there. The oppressor will never cede power without pressure. BDS is non-violent pressure. 

            As for the domain of the artist– it is the domain of the person. The call of justice, the demand that we not walk on the bones of others, that we take a stand when given the opportunity, is a human obligation.
            5 hours ago · Like · 10
          • Emma Rosenthal On the web page with lists of sponsors, there’s a link to the page in English.
            5 hours ago · Like · 5
          • Roland Rance And also Stanley, please don’t forget that Eilat is the site of Israel’s internment centre for “illegal” refugees from Africa. Surely you do not want to share any of your lustre with such a place?http://www.africanglobe.net/africa/israel-begins-rounding-interning-africans/

            www.africanglobe.net

            Israel said on Monday it had started rounding up African migrants in the first stage of a controversial “emergency plan” to intern and deport thousands deemed a threat to the Jewish character
            5 hours ago · Edited · Like · 5
          • Emma Rosenthal Karen states: ” Oscar, i’d like to remind you that Stanley Jordan played on a political documentary exposing the crimes of the apartheid conditions in South Africa and standing in solidarity with the oppressed. if he thought his music could bring peace, he could have easily played instead. However, he did not.”

            Stanley did not play Sun City, but those that did, used these exact arguments.
            5 hours ago · Like · 10
          • Tali Shapiro Stanley, Stephan’s argument was actually responded to, even though it was offensive. I have to say that the first option you give is unlikely, but the second, if true is a victory for respectful discourse, because usually these threads are taken over by some vile racist arguments of the colonialist variety. But in our quest to leave no stone unturned, here’s a reply to Stephen :

            “Stanley…I’ve read a lot of what is being shared here and would like to say that you aren’t going to Israel to play in a Jazz festival because of political ideology. You plan to go and share your talent with music lovers and regular people.”

            This is a typical claim in our political context: What does music have to do with politics. I devote most my writings to refute this claim, but none so relevant as my last post (which has already been posted, but what the heyhttp://pulsemedia.org/2012/12/25/israel-2012-the-question-of-a-nation-what-does-culture-have-to-do-with-politics-part-2/). I’ll also address the personal dimension, since Stephan did: Do you divorce your politics from your music, your way of life? Or do you try to manifest it in your music?

            “This boycott and the pressure that is being exerted on musicians to boycott is over the line and intrusive.”

            The soldiers in my friends’ 10 year old girl’s room, masked with guns, searching through her stuff, that’s intrusive. 

            “The suggestion that anyone who does not go along with the boycott is in some way less of a human being is plain wrong. You folks have your point of view. You are entitled to it.”

            So, Emma answered this straw man well, I won’t repeat. I will add that Palestinians are not entitled to it, and have spent many a nights in prison, in a meter by meter cell with a toilet, a thin mattress and a blanket (if they were lucky), with no window to tell them whether it was day or night, with no showers, subject to interrogation, beatings and torture, all for their pro-BDS opinions. As for me, as a citizen of Israel, my status is pending. There’s a law prohibiting this opinion of mine, you can read all about it in my other article devoted to that whimsical, totally theoretical question, which has absolutely nothing to do with peoples lives and realities: What does politics have to do with culture?http://pulsemedia.org/2012/12/12/israel-2012-the-question-of-a-nation-what-does-culture-have-to-do-with-politics/ 

            “Israel was given a right to exist by the British.”

            The first time in history refugees were given their own state, instead of status in their state of refuge. Let us not forget also, that Palestinians were struggling against British rule at the time, not to mention the Zionist underground taking up their own brand of armed resistance against the Brits, who in the end sided with the white folks, over the brown folks… how surprising…

            I also would like to point out the insidiousness of this remark, as it has political context as well. No one is negating “Israel’s right to exist”, one can not negate the existence of the barrel of the gun pointed at one’s face.

            “The UN recognized that back in 1948. The Brits gave most of Palestine to Arabs.”

            False. The Brits gave the majority of the land to the Jewish minority, that is why Palestinian Arabs rejected the deal (it’s all in Occupation 101, but there are other resources I can link you to).

            “In 1967 Israel was forced to go to war to defend themselves against an alliance that was out to eradicate them… a small number of people in comparison with the number of Arabs in that area.”

            False framing. In 1967 Israel went into an expansion war with Egypt and Jordan and occupied the West Bank and the Gaza strip. The situation for the people in these territories has been in deterioration ever since. 

            And again a note on the insidiousness of the remarks of “eradicating the Jews” which is in the same vein of “Israel’s right to exist”. The reason there were so little Jews in the area is because they’ve been pushed to move here by the Jewish Agency. Instead of getting along, they demanded their own state at the expense of the indigenous. Eradication of Jews ended in 1948, in Europe, and it definitely doesn’t justify the eradication of Palestinians. And this lumping up of Arab peoples is just racist.

            “They gave back the Sinai Peninsula to Egypt when Egypt agreed to leave them alone.”

            How kind of them really, I wonder why Egypt was so miffed to begin with….

            “They haven’t had any offers to live in peace from anyone else and so they need to hold onto territories that give them defendable borders.”

            Actually, there were tons of offers
            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egypt%E2%80%93Israel_Peace_Treaty
            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Camp_David_Accords
            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel%E2%80%93Jordan_Treaty_of_Peace
            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab_Peace_Initiative
            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oslo_I_Accord
            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Madrid_Conference_of_1991
            http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/11/21/israel-hamas-peace-agreement-text_n_2171602.html
            5 hours ago · Like · 8
          • Tali Shapiro But Israel would rather continue harassing farmers and arresting children. But let’s cut to the chase, how do you define borders, when you keep defying them by building a wall across the officially-accepted line of what should be your state (I have a lot to argue about this line of reasoning, but Stephan brought it up)?

            “There are Palestinians living within the borders of Israel and then a majority of Palestinians living in disputed lands. That land and more was originally promised to Israel back in 1948.”

            I touched on this before, but just in case, here’s that article againhttp://pulsemedia.org/2012/07/01/the-red-hot-chili-peppers-and-the-story-of-the-wiping-out-of-the-indigenous-people-of-a-land-formerly-known-as-falastin/ Other than that, I have no clue what land Stephan is referring to that was originally promised to Israel back in 1948. I will just remind you that this state was given by an occupying power to refugees, at the expense of the indigenous.

            “Israel takes better care of the “Palestinians” than any other nation in the Middle East. Sure, they put restrictions on them but this isn’t a population that lives like any other on earth.”

            Yeah, that “ruffles a few feathers” indeed. For more of that political context, putting the word Palestinian in quotes is exactly that denial of their identity, that I was referring to earlier. For more context, how dare someone who supports a military regime deny the collective identity of the people under that regime’s boot? And to say that Israel “takes care of Palestinians” is again, racist, paternalistic, and in complete denial of the realities on the ground, which as far as I understand, you Stanley, are not in denial about. 

            “You can choose to be blind to the offences of the Palestinians all you want but Israel does not need to play deaf, dumb and blind for to do so is suicidal.”

            Since I guess what Stephan is referring to here is armed resistance, I think we mulled it over enough. As for it being suicidal: Israel was more worried in its last assault of Gaza (known as “Pillar of Cloud”) of the UN bid for Palestinian status, than it was about Palestinian rocket retaliation. 

            “I can go on and on about this but the bottom line is this, Stanley, you have a right to feel free to travel to see any set of people on Earth and perform for them.”

            You do, Palestinians don’t.

            “They have a right to expect you to hold true to your word. Denying innocent people a chance to see you play because some group is trying to push their agenda and their version of reality on anyone who would show love or camaraderie to them is wrong.”

            For Israelis, you are denying them the chance to see you (with all due respect); For Palestinians, you are being complicit with a system that is ethnically cleansing them as we speak. That’s the meaning of your decisions.

            “I wish you’d guys would back off and stop turning everything into some kind of holy war. I’m sure there are loads of Palestinians who would love to go see Stanley as well and in Israel of all places.”

            I don’t know who the racist was who turned this into a holy war, but it sure as hell wasn’t the BDS movement. As for Palestinians who’d love to see Stanley preform on the remains of Umm al Rashrash… you know what I think about that, but remember, though really that’s not the point, even if there are those who would, they can’t. And seriously, again, with no disrespect, that is so the least of their worries.

            “I support you going Stanley and just sharing with these people who love your art as you would anyone else. Discriminating against Israelis and anyone else who would be showing up for the festival is not going to spread love and peace but rather offend a people who are under attack every day of their lives.”

            He would of course support you going, as he denies the self determination of Palestinians and most obviously toes the party-line and lies of Israel’s propaganda. You would not be “discriminating against Israelis” that’s false framing, you’d be not participating in mechanisms of oppression. And again, Israelis are not under attack every day of their lives, I know, I lived here for 29 years, in the south and in the center mostly. Israelis, on the most part live comfortable lives (unless you count the evils of capitalism, which are nuances I’m more than happy to go into, but don’t change the overall picture, just enrich it). Palestinians, on the other hand live a life stifled under military occupation, with constant army presence in their lives.

            I’d like to remind you that your choice to play or not to play has to do with Israel’s mechanisms of culture whitewashing Israel’s military mechanisms. Your choice is whether to take part in that, or not. Someone here said something similar to “do no harm”. that would be a great start.
            5 hours ago · Unlike · 9
          • Karen MacRae Further to Roland’s comments on the Eliat internment centre for ‘illegal” refugees in Israel here is the UN video report on the situation of African Refugees in Israel that David Sheen an Israeli activist, has made. He’s been documenting their plight for some time now. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cUivyO5T_34

            www.youtube.com

            Report for the African Refugee Development Center (ARDC) to the United Nations Committee on the Elimination of Racial Discrimination (CERD) – submitted Janua…
            3 hours ago · Edited · Unlike · 6
          • Emma Rosenthal Tali’s succinct points: How can anyone argue with that? ^
            5 hours ago · Edited · Like · 6
          • Making Change Street Newspaper I still don’t see how a Jazz Festival can be held in a venue with a “Monkey Bar” and be considered an important artistic engagement that requires tedious ideological discourse, and the throwing of flowers and pearls of the suffering and war torn victims in some consciousness wrestling job offer. Stanley Jordan, why have you not cancelled?
            5 hours ago · Edited · Unlike · 5
          • Tali Shapiro Stanley Jordan once again, the Red Sea Jazz Festival state and corporate connections are in this articlehttp://pulsemedia.org/2012/12/25/israel-2012-the-question-of-a-nation-what-does-culture-have-to-do-with-politics-part-2/ under the subtitle “Who Profits from the Institutionalizing and Normalizing of the Occupation?” It’s all in english

            pulsemedia.org

            Earlier this week, I found a message in my inbox by an Israeli, who’s a Jazz musician, who’s paying gig was canceled because of a successful BDS movement campaign to get Swedish Jazzist, Andreas Öb…
          • Making Change Street Newspaper As of right now, Stanley Jordan, what is/are THE REASON(S) you have not cancelled as of right now. Rima, your words ring loudly, pardon my reinserting your post – “Stanley, you say, “I’m just a guitar player, trying to play my music and hopefully spread a little love and inspiration along the way.” That’s a bit disingenuous in the context of this discussion. If you are just a guitar player outside the virulent context of Israel’s normalizing itself through its Brand Israel program, why are we having this conversation?”
            5 hours ago · Edited · Unlike · 7
          • Emma Rosenthal “Activism is my rent for living on this planet” – Alice Walker
            5 hours ago · Like · 7
          • Adrian Boutureira Sansberro Stanley…in a message from a few hours ago, you invite people to look beyond the “simplicity” of the points being made by the vast majority of the posts here, since you are hearing much more to the story from non participant voices…

            I believe I need to take a bit of offense to that, not just for myself, but on behalf of everyone who has accepted your generous invitation to partake in this process via your wall. I have too shared off thread my thoughts about what is happening here…People have given you their undivided attention, going to huge lengths to use their education, and humanity to point out a vast multiplicity of angles and points of views as to why this is critical to support. There have been no efforts left untried to present you with respectful and extremely well-educate perspectives. What you say, feels very inconsiderate to me. You make me feel as if you think we are some sort of fanatical cult with scripted speeches we are simply here pushing down your and your audiences throats. Nothing could be further form the truth. This is truly wonderful and inspirational to me, as what you are hearing is the chorus of a hugely diverse group of mostly unassociated individual voices…If this improvised chorus sounds harmonious to your ears, perhaps there is something to what the chorus is singing to you…perhaps your heart should welcome the powerful vibrations of this free form chorus…maybe the absence of a counter chorus is what speaks volumes as to how little true harmony it has to offer to this theme…
          • Making Change Street Newspaper {applause @Adrian applause} {including emma’s adequate observation of the silence of zionist sound}
            5 hours ago · Edited · Unlike · 4
          • Geraldine Kelly music indeed is a powerful tool,,,,do you remember the song ” free nelson mandela”,,,,who himself was labelled a terrorist for fighting oppression,,,https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=538748519471437&set=a.520453191300970.122357.520448591301430&type=1&relevant_count=1
            “We know too well that our freedom is incomplete without the freedom of the Palestinians.”

            Photo

            “We know too well that our freedom is incomplete without the freedom of the Palestinians.”

            5 hours ago · Unlike · 6
          • Tali Shapiro I don’t know Making Change Street Newspaper, but here are some numbers: About 40,000 people come. the website offers sales deals of between 1 to 6 shows. 1 show is 150 NIS (a bit over $40), so at the minimum that’s 6Million NIS (a bit over $1.6M). I don’t know much about show business, but I gather these are not astronomical rates.
            5 hours ago · Like · 6
          • Geraldine Kelly what is there to discuss about ethnic cleansing by a state? if that state is breaking international law then we as internationals need to do something about it and not normalising the situation
            5 hours ago · Like · 5
          • Emma Rosenthal Music is a force for change when you make it part of the movement for social justice, but it has to be part of that movement. Otherwise, you really are “just a guitar player” and if you do perform at Eliat– the Sun City of Israeli Apartheid, then you become a pawn of those who would use the power of music to justify their hegemony.
            5 hours ago · Like · 9
          • Making Change Street Newspaper if anyone gets captcha’d post or screenshot the captcha code.
          • Tali Shapiro I’m actually wondering if the ticket prices are enough to cover the artists’ pay…
            5 hours ago · Like · 3
          • Monique Buckner Stanley Jordan, you have said, ‘There is no way that can work unless people are getting along.’ in reference to a one-state solution.. Okay, the political outcome of whether it’s a one- or two-state solution has to be decided by those living there as it’s a decision that affects them only. As a South African, I must comment on your reasoning.

            If you had said what you have just said twenty years ago to a black South African that apartheid cannot fall unless you all learn to ‘get along’, I’m sure you would have caused a huge amount of offense to somebody fighting for equality. It comes across as an apology for apartheid to say that everyone’s attitudes have to change first before justice can be served. 

            Actually, South Africans are to this day still struggling with changing offensive attitudes and dealing with the past, but it was vital that justice had to come first. 

            The reason people aren’t getting along in the first place is precisely because of the injustice of the political situation in the occupied territories and in Israel itself- land theft, property vandalism, incarceration and torture of children, political assassinations, collective punishment, humiliations, inequality in access to funds and water, blockade of the Gaza Strip which has caused misery and impoverishment, etc etc. And to make matters clearer- it is the legal responsibility for Israel to end the occupation and apartheid. The Palestinians are not expected to like how they are being persecuted and play along with it. Just as black South Africans were never expected (by anyone of integrity) to bow and scrape to white masters, why do you expect this of Palestinians to their colonial masters? If we would hate to be treated unjustly, we must also hate the injustice suffered by others.
            5 hours ago · Unlike · 7
          • Making Change Street Newspaper someone’s gotta know that they are hiring all these american performers to travel to this region.
            5 hours ago · Unlike · 3
          • Geraldine Kelly i dont know if you realize that the most active activists are israelis themselves ,,,Tali ShapiroMiko PeledNurit Peled-Elhanan ,,Breaking the silence, Zohcrot, Bet selem im sure there are so many more that i dont know about,,,,the list is quite extensive. these people like mr mandela, mr tutu etc are and will be the heroes of the day.
            4 hours ago · Unlike · 7
          • Emma Rosenthal It seems, Stanley, you have 3 choices:
            1. Play at the festival and in so doing, as evidence of state policy of using culture as propaganda and public relations, normalize the ongoing oppression of Palestinians, and be paid handsomely for doing so. 

            2. Boycott the event and say why, with a strong statement in support of Palestinian human rights. 

            3. Cancel your engagement and say you’re not taking a position either way.
            4 hours ago · Like · 6
          • Making Change Street Newspaper yah and spend the rest of your day investigating the core issues of the conflict, in a facebook thread.
            4 hours ago · Like · 1
          • Raymond Deane Once more, let’s cut through the “confusion” and “complications”: there is a brutal regime in place in Israel that subjects the Palestinian people (West Bank, East Jerusalem, Gaza) to criminal levels of persecution in pursuance of a racist aim – the creation of an ethnically pure, sectarian state from which the indigenous Arab population has been “cleansed”, and to which, of course, the exiled Palestinian diaspora is denied its Right of Return which is guaranteed under international law. 47 years after the violent creation of that state (which still has negotiated no borders), the persecuted Palestinians decided on a peaceful strategy of calling for Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions against the Israeli state, including a cultural boycott. Simultaneously, the Israeli state declared (in the words of Nissim Ben Sheetrit) that it sees “no difference between culture and propaganda”, and instituted a massive “brand Israel campaign” to whitewash Israeli crimes against the Palestinian people. Artists who travel to Israel to participate in events linked to the state are participating in that whitewash; musicians will, in effect, be performing to segregated audiences. They will also be telling the persecuted Palestinians that they do not respect their call – which means that they do not respect THEM.
            4 hours ago · Edited · Unlike · 9
          • Emma Rosenthal What I don’t understand, since the BDS movement calls basic equal rights for all, and you feel that Israelis aren’t ready for that, why would you want to participate in such a society? How does that position differ from the position of white South Africans, or U.S. slaveholders, who demanded that equality was simply a threat to their “way of life”? What does justice demand of each of us? How do we act responsibly, as full human beings? When you say you are “just a guitar player” are you saying that our no more than our labor? Do you feel we have a greater obligation to make sure our work serves righteousness?
            4 hours ago · Like · 6
          • Rima Najjar YES! Thank you Monique Buckner: “The reason people aren’t getting along in the first place is precisely because of the injustice of the political situation in the occupied territories and in Israel itself- land theft, property vandalism, incarceration and torture of children, political assassinations, collective punishment, humiliations, inequality in access to funds and water, blockade of the Gaza Strip which has caused misery and impoverishment, etc etc.”
            4 hours ago · Unlike · 5
          • Raymond Deane I am “just a classical composer and pianist”, which is why, knowing how easy it is to lose oneself in one’s music, I seek to be aware of what’s going on out there and, in particular, not put myself in a position whereby I am complicit with crimes against humanity.
            4 hours ago · Unlike · 7
          • Adrian Boutureira Sansberro Option 4 to add to Emma’s 3- Get on stage, unfurl a huge End the Occupation banner behind your band and play a single piece which could be a jazz interpretation of the Palestinian national anthem; rush off stage before you get injured, and of course refuse payment; then head to Gaza for a free street concert in honor of the children murdered by Israel during the bombardment last month.
            4 hours ago · Like · 4
          • Loai Najjar this does not have anything to do with money. it is moral question. it is the artist moral consciousness is at stake. you either see the overwhelming evidence of wrongs and unspeakable pain inflected on the Palestinians or choose to ignore it and perform.
            4 hours ago · Unlike · 6
          • Emma Rosenthal The 4th option is really just the first option. No one who has tried to give a message from the stage can provide any evidence that it has challenged the regime one bit, and Palestinians have made it clear they are not providing audiences for people who cross their picket line. There is no way to cross the line and not be complicit.
            4 hours ago · Like · 4
          • Stanley Jordan Matt, you said, “Your statement that you have Palestinian friends coming to the concert sounds incredibly disingenuous because of the incredible suffering meeted out by the State of Israel upon the Palestinian people writ large. Does your friends’ visit justify this suffering?” I didn’t say it to justify anything. The only reason I mentioned it is because I’ve been told here that Palestinians won’t be able to come to my concert and I thought, well what about my friends? They won’t have any trouble coming. And for the record, they would prefer I support the boycott, at least one has said so. But they won’t hold it against me if I perform. They see the bigger picture.
          • Tali Shapiro Have to agree with Emma on this one Adrian. and also reiterate the points I made about this, way back 200 comments ago: a) It’s immoral for them to get into the contents of your show. b) As part of their rejection to this type of fascism, they don’t apply boycott to the individual, but to the mechanism. And c) Why should any Palestinian accept a “balancing”, charity show, after the artist made money from a gig serving the system that holds them dependent on that charity?

            @Loai Najjar, it all has to do with money, unless you make it about something otherwise. Stanley’s concert is a product traded in a business transaction. He can decide to sell his goods to Israel, or not “do business as usual” with it. If Stanley decides to forgo the money (which seriously, I don’t think ticket sales can cover), then he makes it about his morals and his conscious. Not to say that if he does take the money and perform, it doesn’t involve his morals and his conscious, they just won’t be allotted priority.
            4 hours ago · Unlike · 6
          • Elise Hendrick Stanley, this is going to be a bit long because I’m responding to multiple comments in a consolidated fashion:

            “Elise, you said, “We already know what will be done: Your presence and that of other international artists at this state-sponsored music festival will be once again held out as proof that there’s nothing wrong with Israeli society, and certainly no systematic racist oppression. “

            I certainly would not want my concert to be used by anyone to support a propaganda campaign.”

            To the Israeli regime, “all culture is propaganda” (a direct quote from a high-ranking Israeli Foreign Affairs official). The whole reason the Israeli government foots the bill for the festival you signed on to play is to use it as propaganda. If you don’t want your concert to be used as propaganda, then don’t go. It’s as simple as that. If you go, your concert will be propaganda, no matter whether you want it to be or not.

            “They could say, for example that it’s an attempt to isolate Jews even more than they already are.”

            It is true that people can lie. As a Jew myself, I am a bit mystified at this notion that we are supposedly isolated. I don’t feel isolated. I’m in very good company. 

            ” I won’t give any more examples, because I don’t want to give anyone any ideas, but the point is, we cannot control the major media. Telling me that I should not play the concert because it can be spun in the media is like saying there should be no BDS boycott because it, too can be spun. I’m not saying there’s no media spin, I’m just saying that that, by itself, is not a reason to cancel my concert.”

            That is emphatically NOT what I have said. I’m not talking about media spin. I’m talking about participating in a government-sponsored propaganda effort in the first place. You may not have realised that that’s what you had signed on for, but it is.
            4 hours ago · Unlike · 4
          • Elise Hendrick “You also said, “Now, if you think that your music will actually physically break down the walls that imprison the Palestinians (who, it bears reiterating, will not be allowed anywhere near your performance), and actually render inoperative the bullets and bombs and grenades directed at Palestinians on a daily basis, then you should try to accept that the Palestinians know more about the society they’re living in – and how to get through to it – than you do.”

            “I’ve always agreed that my music will not physically change the system. There is e the exterior (objective) dimension, including the state system and the boycott. Then you have the interior (subjective) dimension, where my music resides. I feel like I’m surrounded by externalists who are trying to convince me that the exterior dimension is all that matters, and all I’m trying to say is that the interior dimension matters too. Is anyone out there hearing me at all?”

            Let’s talk about the interior dimension. Racism in Israeli Jewish society (your audience) is virulent and, according to consistent polling results, predominant. In the interior dimension, you will be confirming to an audience that (again, judging from consistent polling results) wouldn’t bat an eye if you were caught up in one of the ever-more-frequent pogroms against anyone who appears to be an African refugee that their racism, and the regime on which it stands, is just fine, that they really live in the vibrant, diverse, internationally accepted, free, democratic society they delude themselves into believing they live in. 

            The Israeli regime sponsors these events as much to reinforce the propaganda directed at their own Jewish citizens as they do to propagandise internationally.
            4 hours ago · Unlike · 4
          • Elise Hendrick “Stanley Jordan Andy, you said, “BDS comes from all sectors of civil society. I would imagine that some do and some do not denounce violence.” My first thought was, “Why is it OK to accept people who openly condone violence, while putting me down simply for being reluctant to cancel a gig?” “

            Why is it OK to condemn people who defend themselves when faced with overwhelming, murderous violence? Why should the Palestinians not have the right of self defence that everyone else takes for granted? It is very easy to moralise about “violence” when you don’t have F-16s circling around your house or bulldozers knocking it down with your kids in it.

            The ANC and SWAPO didn’t “renounce violence”, either, as has been repeatedly pointed out in this thread. And why should they, when they were under fire from a heavily armed racist regime (a racist regime, incidentally, that the US and Israel played a major role in arming in the first place)? Do we condemn the anti-fascist resistance in occupied Europe in the 1940s because they didn’t limit their resistance activities to candlelight vigils? Does the fact that Iraqis, Afghans, and Vietnamese have, at the respective times, resorted to force to defend their homes from invading armies make them morally equivalent to the aggressors?

            “At one point we had Stephen, who advised against cancelling, and presented some information very different from most of the other posts here and he was attacked as a Zionist and called a liar without much point by point refutation of his actual assertions… Perhaps he was making the technical point that there is no official Palestinian state, and many folks have no way to get passports, but I can’t speak for him.”

            He was not making any such technical point. The use of inverted commas around “Palestinians” is a standard propaganda trope to claim that there are no Palestinians, and that therefore they have no rights. A google search will yield plenty of results showing that this is indeed the usage. 

            When someone repeats a litany of racist slurs and “facts” that have long since been debunked, I don’t see why they should be dignified with any response at all? Stanley repeated a bunch of stale propaganda dedicated to removing the moral objection to the obliteraton of an indigenous population by claiming that population does not exist. If someone were to come on here and say that slavery was actually beneficial to its victims (a claim that was very common back when the abolition of slavery was up for debate!), would we not be right to dismiss them? 

            Similarly, I don’t think there would be much objection to us dismissing a holocaust denier in that fashion, nor should there be. Why should such propaganda be treated as a legitimate contribution to the debate?

            Incidentally, it is quite simply NOT TRUE that no one addressed the factual content of his propaganda. I specifically addressed the falsehood that “Israel was given a right to exist by the British”, pointing out that this both misrepresented the Balfour Declaration, which did no such thing, and was based on the racist assumption that the indigenous population – whose existence Stephen outright denied – should have no say in who rules over them.
            4 hours ago · Unlike · 4
          • Elise Hendrick “But privately, I’ve been speaking with a large variety of people on both sides of this issue and in between. And the picture I am getting is far more complicated than what is revealed on this thread.”

            Thank you for the confirmation. I had thought it a bit odd that the usual racists (Stephen excepted) were so conspicuously absent from the thread. Clearly, they do not want to participate in open discussion, because that would expose their claims to scrutiny and rebuttal. 

            The facts here are not complicated. Israel is a colonial regime that exists on land stolen from 700,000 Palestinians who were violently expelled from their homes in 1948. A slower version of that expulsion, especially in occupied East Jerusalem, continues to this day. Israel imposes openly discriminatory laws on the 20% of Israeli citizens who are Palestinians in order to exclude them from full participation in the political, economic, and social life of the country. The Palestinians in the territories occupied in 1967 have it even worse – they are subject to wanton violence with near-absolute impunity, up to and including massacres like the one that was going on four years ago today in the occupied Gaza strip. The situation is only complicated to those looking to justify a racist regime from which they personally benefit in one way or another. 

            ““Solidarity” raises a red flag with me because it sounds like I’m being asked to fight right-wing fascism with left-wing totalitarianism by blending into the cause, echoing the talking points, “drinking the Kool-Aid”, doing exactly as I’m told.”

            I am at an utter loss to see how the concept of solidarity – the idea of mutual aid and mutual defence on the basis that an injustice to one is an injustice to all – is “left-wing totalitarianism”. And if you feel that your “reputation as a free thinker” means crossing the Palestinian picket line and taking money from a racist regime in exchange for (what the regime considers) propaganda services simply because Palestinians and the worldwide movement that supports them have asked you not to cross the picket line, then that’s not free thinking at all. Refusing to do something simply because you’ve been asked to do it is no freer than doing something simply because you’ve been asked to do it.
            4 hours ago · Unlike · 7
          • Stanley Jordan Stanley Jordan Gabriel, you said, “The idea that you should listen to what Palestinians ask rather than tell them what you think they should ask is no different from any other idea expressed here. … How would you feel if people you asked for help came back and told you how to organize your life, and forced on you “help” that you don’t ask for and that you consider abusive”

            I would not like it—in fact I’ve had that happen and I hated it, so your point is well taken, However, I think a more accurate comparison would be if I asked for specific help but it would involve the person quitting a job and they said, “I’m not sure if I can help you with that but I do want to help you–let’s explore other possibilities.” And then I said, “If you are not willing to quit your job for me then you obviously don’t care about me and I won’t accept any other kind of help.” And then they said “No, I really do care about you and I do want to help, but I have to give you something that fits the reality of my situation.” 

            On the subject of what you call “help” that is considered abusive, that does not fit this concert. I never claimed this concert would help Palestinians, but I am not doing anything abusive, I’m just playing my music. However, I would love to explore ideas for things that will help. This situation and the information I’ve received has really moved me, and I regret that we have this sticking point about the boycott being the only acceptable form of help.
          • Making Change Street Newspaper you are saying that this is a job. this is a performance. one of many in a career. this one is of no value to your career except in not performing during a war time conflict. any other schedule at this venue would be more appropriate in a peacetime situation. you are not playing your music. you are scheduling to play at an event, that is part of a war time entertainment tourism package. what type of help are you thinking you will provide by performing and who is the beneficiary?
            4 hours ago · Edited · Like · 4
          • Adrian Boutureira Sansberro yes…I was trying to lighten up things a little with option 4…Sorry, there is still a mischievous teenage boy somewhere inside of me just screaming to get out and get me in trouble…
            4 hours ago · Like · 7
          • Elise Hendrick Stanley: One additional thought:

            Perhaps you might like to share with us these arguments that you are getting in private and leading you to believe that things are “more complex” than this discussion would indicate, so that we can actually address those arguments, rather than the situation we’re in now, where we are essentially having a debate in which our views and the facts on which we rely are open for all to see, whilst those we are debating against are concealed from us. That isn’t exactly fair, I’m sure you will agree.
            4 hours ago · Unlike · 9
          • Gabriel Ash Stanley Jordan: Whenever you are asked to do something, there is a question of “reasonabless,” which depends on what you are asked to do, who asks it, and what are the consequences of the action for each. So obviously, this is something you have to decide. But it seems to me vastly exaggerated to compare cancelling a gig to quitting one’s job. I ask you to reflect on what makes you so much overstate the consequences of this action on you. Surely, you will lose something. One cannot do anything worthwhile without paying some price. But is it that high a price? Part of the reason BDS stands a chance as a strategy is that it asks each person a relatively modest contribution, but one that is amplified and becomes meaningful is that so many people are joining. Hundreds of artists have already committed to it. Is your economic situation that much more precarious that you cannot afford to boycott Israel?

            As for the help being abusive. No, normalising apartheid by ignoring the boycott is going to be an abusive act. We ask you to not do it. That is the help that is required. You are not “just” playing your music. Unfortunately, that is impossible. Our lives are not that simple. You are participating in an exchange of value (recognition, legitimacy, normalcy, money, artistic appreciation, etc.) in which the value you provide BY playing your music is used by others to ill effect. And since you know it, that makes you an accomplice.
            4 hours ago · Edited · Like · 10
          • Elise Hendrick Stanley:

            “I would not like it—in fact I’ve had that happen and I hated it, so your point is well taken, However, I think a more accurate comparison would be if I asked for specific help but it would involve the person quitting a job and they said, “I’m not sure if I can help you with that but I do want to help you–let’s explore other possibilities.” And then I said, “If you are not willing to quit your job for me then you obviously don’t care about me and I won’t accept any other kind of help.” And then they said “No, I really do care about you and I do want to help, but I have to give you something that fits the reality of my situation.” “

            This is only a fair analogy if we add the circumstance that the “help” the person is willing to provide actually does not help the person in distress at all.
            4 hours ago · Like · 4
          • Adrian Boutureira Sansberro Stanley, I believe that a dialog between someone wishing to be in solidarity and someone who is asking for solidarity is indeed possible. I agree with Making Change, this is not about quitting your job. On the contrary. it is about letting your career and talents serve as a vehicle for your desire to be in solidarity. As per how does such a dialoge about alternatives take place. Usually, this is informed by the building of trust. Trust, as always is the primary foundation for any healthy relationship. By accepting the request of Palestinian civil society to not partake in support of Israeli state sponsored events, you would be taking a huge step in establishing a relationship of trust with your Palestinian brothers and sisters. I would hope that a real healthy ongoing dialog could further grow out of that. One where you could travel to Gaza and the West Bank to discuss your ideas with those you are in solidarity with. But first things first…use your power, your privilege your position to show the Palestinian people that you understand. That you care. This could actually become the beginning of something incredibly powerful for you…Remember Santana’s Blues for el Salvador? Your next album could be titled Love for Palestine…
            4 hours ago · Like · 5
          • Tom Pessah Stanley, you know, growing up in Israel one is exposed to a lot of state propaganda. I know I was. So what happens is this: on the ground, the army can act very cruelly to palestinian civilians. I know since I’ve been to protests in the West Bank and I’ve seen plenty of videos and testimonies from Palestinians and Israelis. But people usually hear that “palestinians claim X” and “the army spokesperson denies X”, and therefore “the situation is very complex”, “there are always two sides” and they can just continue with business as usual, since maybe human rights abuses are happening but maybe they’re not, if the army is denying that. It takes courage to take a stand, to decide to actually look at the evidence for each claim, and to challenge the powers that be even if they continue to deny their actions. To just say “things are very complex” is the most common cop-out – it may sound profound, but in practice it means using the existence of propaganda as an excuse for inaction.
            4 hours ago · Edited · Like · 7
          • Elise Hendrick It would be a bit like someone encountering a woman being beaten up on the pavement, who shouts “Help! Call the cops or get this bastard off me!”, and responding “I really am concerned at your predicament, but I really can’t see calling the cops in such a complicated situation, and intervening directly seems risky, but I would be happy to write to Congress about the need for better laws against violence against women.”
            4 hours ago · Like · 7
          • Emma Rosenthal Stanley, no one is asking you to quit your job. We’re suggestion that you cancel one gig. If it’s a matter of money, please share those concerns. Perhaps we can find ways to make you whole. If it’s a matter of audience, finding you alternative places to perform should be no problem either.
            4 hours ago · Like · 9
          • Elise Hendrick I second what Emma just said. No one is asking you to stop playing altogether. We’re asking that you not lend your name, your image, and your music to a propaganda effort for the benefit of a racist regime. There are plenty of gigs to be had, and you may even find that your willingness to take a principled stand in this instance actually INCREASES the demand for your performances.
            3 hours ago · Unlike · 8
          • Emma Rosenthal Bullying is a much bandied term. Let’s explore it– Bullies rarely operate in isolations. They get much of their power from their status in society, for example, the “popular” kids in high school, the KKK, an Israeli soldier at a check point, the cop on the beat, an abusive boss, or co-workers, Someone without power, can’t bully. For example, a youth on his way home from school in Los Angeles, is in no capacity to bully a police officer. The officer has the entire support of the state and often behaves with impunity. 

            It is often silent complicity that empowers and normalizes bullies. By performing for the Israeli government, to an audience that will be comprised predominantly of Israeli military (most Israelis under the age of 44 are either in active or reserved duty), you ARE supporting them. 

            Those of us on this thread that are imploring you to honor the boycott have no power over you. We cannot keep you from doing your job or prevent you from getting future gigs.
            3 hours ago · Edited · Like · 9
          • Tali Shapiro Stanley, again, you can do a multitude of things to “help” (don’t like that word). But that’s not what’s being asked of you, you are being asked not to perform in a venue which is in fact part of the abuse against Palestinians. And if you’re keen on being accurate with the analogies; You are not being asked to quit your job, you are being asked to skip 1 gig. I’m a freelancer, I don’t quit jobs, but I do skip gigs once in a while (and yes, sometimes it has to do with my disapproval of my potential employer’s ethics or lack there of). more often than not, I can’t afford to skip a gig. Is this your situation?

            As for “holding it against you”. Your friends make a personal choice not to do so, it’s the complexity of friendship, but that doesn’t make playing for the state and corporate connected Red Sea Jazz Festival any more moral. It just makes your friends very forgiving. + I got family who disprove of pretty much EVERYTHING I do and stand for, just cause someone I love says I’m wrong, doesn’t make them right (does make me wonder why I love them). The evidence has been put before you. I’ll put it there again, until I’m sure you read ithttp://pulsemedia.org/2012/12/25/israel-2012-the-question-of-a-nation-what-does-culture-have-to-do-with-politics-part-2/ (the details of the Red Sea Jazz Fest connections to state and corporations are under the subtitle “Who Profits from the Institutionalizing and Normalizing of the Occupation?”) This is actually the issue. the rest are things we can all chatter about, while hunger strikers die in jail and more lands are annexed.

            pulsemedia.org

            Earlier this week, I found a message in my inbox by an Israeli, who’s a Jazz musician, who’s paying gig was canceled because of a successful BDS movement campaign to get Swedish Jazzist, Andreas Öb…
            3 hours ago · Like · 9
          • Elise Hendrick And a lot of bullying happens behind the scenes. “Debating” people behind their backs in order to deprive them of the chance to respond is a form of bullying, too.
            3 hours ago · Unlike · 9
          • Evan McHugh McAwesome Happy New Year! Is it BDS time yet?
            3 hours ago · Like · 5
          • Andy Griggs As Emma pointed out, no one here is suggesting you quit your job, nor do any of us have the ability to keep you from accepting or being offered future gigs. Has someone has intimated to you that supporting the boycott would destroy your career? If so, they would be the bullies and that should be called out. The blacklisting of activists and musicians would be unacceptable and I would imagine you would have quite a bit of support if that were the case.
            3 hours ago · Unlike · 6
          • Making Change Street Newspaper Well on the subject of bullying. Its a term being plugged into a fairly intelligible discussion, where a valid tool of social justice economic or cultural boycott, is being deployed in a situation. There is where we have confusion I surmise. Because what is being touted as bullying, is actually the pressure involved in a true cultural boycott, whereby you have been tagged as an artist, by a chamber of commerce. This chamber, has conducted an economic tourist package, involving performances by many artists, and you are but one. One of the performers they could get to accept an invitation for by conveniently forgetting to mention that they are losing artists in droves, and there is no list of the performers who have said no. But there is a small list of 20 that may have said yes, and may too be pulling their performances. Based on active engagement with human rights advocates from around the world. Some of which have produced compelling and engaging descriptions and dialogue to meet your inner argument. And have done so with much respect, and kindness imho. If you are saying this is about your ego, and that you don’t like to be told what to do, that is of no consequence, and bullying is not boycott. What you are feeling here, is boycott. Tough, core, engaged, and massively interested in the suffering in the conflict of this region where you are scheduled.
            3 hours ago · Edited · Unlike · 3
          • Roland Rance Stanley, Palestinians are not asking you to stop playing music. They are asking you not to play at this particular gig. A better analogy would be workers on strike, who are picketing the workplace where you are in a different union, asking you not to cross their picket line. Sure, by not crossing you might lose a day’s pay; but, by crossing, you would be undermining their strike, and showing contempt for fellow workers, and for your the working class as a whole.
            3 hours ago · Unlike · 9
          • Adrian Boutureira Sansberro Very nicely put Roland!
            3 hours ago · Like · 1
          • Alex Kramer Stanley, you must not play. You must honor the boycott. If you play you will be sending a clear message to Palestinians that you do not support them. Full stop. There is no grey area. I urge you to contact Raymond Deanedirectly to find out how best to support Palestine as an artist.
            3 hours ago via mobile · Unlike · 7
          • Raimo Kangasniemi Art can’t be separate from politics. Let’s just think of people like Wilhelm Furtwängler. He claimed political neutrality, but his decision to stay in Germany and continue to hold a high public role in German classical music under the Nazi rule was a propaganda victory for the Nazis and it forever stained Furtwängler’s own image and memory. One can’t be politically neutral and play or conduct for an oppressive regime, not in 1930s Germany nor in 2013 Israel, which practices Apartheid, ethnic cleansing and brutal violence towards people based on ethnic identity.
            3 hours ago · Edited · Unlike · 3
          • Raimo Kangasniemi After oppression&occupation has ended can art play a healing role. But as long as freedom is denied, as long as apartheid and ethnic cleansing continues, as long as children are murdered in Israel’s name, playing in Israel just works to help apartheid, ethnic cleansing and killings (close to 300 Palestinians were killed by Israel in 2012) to continue. Don’t be a shield for Israel’s human rights and laws of war violations.
            3 hours ago · Unlike · 2
          • Rima Najjar Stanley, way, way, way up there, you and I have had this exchange: You say, “But why should we outsiders bare the economic brunt of the boycotts? You want me to quit my job, so then shouldn’t you be quitting yours too?” It sounds like you are looking at this from a financial point of view (rather than the ethics and morality we have been discussing). As a Palestinian, I say, no. If going to this performance in Israel is your livelihood, don’t starve your family. Afterall, life is so bitter here for some Palestinians that they are the labor that builds illegal israeli settlements and that has built the wall. Man got to eat.
            3 hours ago · Like · 2
          • Stanley Jordan Elise, regarding Stephen’s use of “Palestinians” in quotes –I did not do that. I was merely noticing that Stephen did, and that I had thought that may have ruffled a few feathers, which may have caused some of the backlash against his comments, and it appears that I was right about that. 

            And thanks to you and to Rima for responding to Stephen’s points. 
            Regarding his comment about me being seen as less human if I don’t cancel, I would infer that he was talking about the comments that posit an equivalency between keeping the gig and supporting oppression, and the idea that if I were to keep my commitment to perform it would constitute a moral failure on my part. Since morality is part of being truly human, that would constitute being accused of being less human if I keep the gig. But of course I can’t speak for him.
          • Elise Hendrick Stanley: “Elise, regarding Stephen’s use of “Palestinians” in quotes –I did not do that”

            I didn’t say you did. I explained why he did. It is a standard trope, and it has nothing to do with the “technical” issues you were raising. 

            “Regarding his comment about me being seen as less human if I don’t cancel, I would infer that he was talking about the comments that posit an equivalency between keeping the gig and supporting oppression,”

            It isn’t just a moral equivalency here. It is the nature of the act. You can’t participate in a propaganda event sponsored by a racist regime without supporting oppression, by definition. The support lies in the action itself.
            2 hours ago · Unlike · 4
          • Stanley Jordan Elise, you said “The facts here are not complicated.” Sorry, but I beg to differ. This is the most complicated issue I have ever encountered by far.
          • Making Change Street Newspaper Canceling a concert is not difficult. Tell us your fees, maybe we can substitute. I can contribute towards such an effort.
            2 hours ago · Edited · Unlike · 2
          • Miko Peled I will add my two cents by saying that no racist regime ever gave up power without a fight. I would recommend Susan Abulhawa book Mornings in Jenin for a better vision of what Israel has done. Boycott of Israel is the right thing to do and once Palestinians are granted complete equality we can discuss dialogue
            2 hours ago · Unlike · 7
          • Elise Hendrick Perhaps you could share with us what makes it so complicated, then. You have said “it’s complicated” repeatedly, but you haven’t yet made any attempt to explain what the complication is that you are seeing.
            2 hours ago · Unlike · 6
          • Karen MacRae I’m sure it’s not as complicated to the Gazan people who just got bombed to smithereens for over a week straight. To them it’s perfectly simple.
            2 hours ago · Unlike · 7
          • Rima Najjar Imagine you come across a small child who has fallen into a pond and is in danger of drowning. You know that you can easily and safely rescue him, but you are wearing an expensive pair of shoes that will be ruined if you do. We all think it would be seriously wrong to walk on past the pond, leaving the child to drown, because you don’t want to have to buy a new pair of shoes – in fact, most people think that would be monstrous. You can’t compare a child’s life with a pair of shoes!
            2 hours ago · Unlike · 4
          • Rick Saling Equal Rights for Palestinians is the road to peace in Palestine/Israel. Many have called Israel an apartheid state, including Desmond Tutu. Such states don’t surrender the basis on which they are built without outside pressure. Palestinians have asked for people to support Boycott, Divestment, and Sanctions (“BDS”) as the most effective way to apply such pressure.
            So that’s why we ask that you do not perform in Israel.
            2 hours ago · Unlike · 3
          • Tali Shapiro Stanley, again (is it possible you’re not seeing my posts?), explain what is complicated, so we can unravel the mysteries. I said I’d be here all night to answer any question you might have, I meant it. I’m here, what is unclear? Is Israel domination of the Palestinian population unclear? Is the history of a group of refugees from genocide perpetrating a genocide not clear? Are the connections of the Red Sea Jazz Festival to Israel’s mechanisms of ethnic cleansing, apartheid and military occupation unclear?
            Please be specific as to what information you are in need of in order to make a consciousness choice. We’re all here with you.
            2 hours ago · Unlike · 4
          • Making Change Street Newspaper And for the record, its not you that would be less than human for playing the event. It would be that you consider Palestine to be less than human in value for the performance.
            2 hours ago · Unlike · 3
          • Rima Najjar I am also here with Tali. And for both of us, It’s already the new year.
            2 hours ago · Unlike · 5
          • Karen MacRae I would imagine white people must have said ‘it’s complicated” justifying the enslavement of black people. And I KNOW privileged white people in Canada say “it’s complicated” about the horrible conditions Indigenous people live in over here ALL THE TIME. However, it’s not that complicated. It’s oppression.
            2 hours ago · Unlike · 4
          • Making Change Street Newspaper Happy New Year Rima Najjar and Tali Shapiro! So wonderful to have met you by reading your hearts thoughts on this crisis.
            2 hours ago · Unlike · 4
          • Stanley Jordan Elise, you said, “It would be a bit like someone encountering a woman being beaten up on the pavement, who shouts “Help! Call the cops or get this bastard off me!”, and responding “I really am concerned at your predicament, but I really can’t see calling the cops in such a complicated situation, and intervening directly seems risky, but I would be happy to write to Congress about the need for better laws against violence against women.” 

            This argument was very compelling, and very moving, and when I first read it my thought was, “I’m such an idiot, how could I even think of not supporting this movement!” But then I thought, “Wait a minute, who exactly are the cops in this scenario?” And I realized that my analogy would be different. In my analogy the cop is the one beating up the woman, so there is no one I can call who can stop him, and yet I feel compelled to do something so I think “maybe I can at least talk to him, or play my guitar and try to sooth his troubled soul” but I’m told “No your only option is to cancel your gig at the policeman’s ball.”
          • Emma Rosenthal Stanley, what are the complications you are struggling with? Because we’ve heard that as an excuse for just allowing things to go on as before, as a means of dismissing real human rights concerns. So, if it’s not an excuse, let’s talk about these complexities. If it’s just an excuse, then just do what you want to do, but let’s not pretend there’s anything altruistic in the decision.
            2 hours ago · Like · 2
          • Tali Shapiro Happy new year Making Change Street Newspaper!  and kisses to all all my friends from before this thread and the new ones I met on it. It’s been inspiring so far, let’s up the anti with a vigil. I got Rima with me (which makes it doubly worth while  ), I think we make for pleasant company, who sitting with us?
            2 hours ago · Unlike · 7
          • Making Change Street Newspaper And your only option is not to react with your ego. You have many options, you live in a comfortable world, and you have time to make your decision, and have a choice to participate. A choice not afforded those under the Occupation.
            2 hours ago · Unlike · 3
          • Making Change Street Newspaper Stanley, have you considered why there are no local musicians performing, but Americans?
          • Making Change Street Newspaper http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iUa24LbTHl0

            www.youtube.com

            Tinariwen are a nomadic band of Touareg people that was formed in 1982. They have produced two studio albums (although many cassette recordings of their earl…
            2 hours ago · Unlike · 2
          • Emma Rosenthal “maybe I can at least talk to him, or play my guitar and try to sooth his troubled soul”” I live in the Rampart Division of the LAPD, (google it, if you’re unaware), the most brutal division of one of the most brutal police departments. I’ve seen the cops mess with people, and I do what I can to defend people. I too, am a performance artist and a visual artist. I can’t imagine serenading the LAPD. I certainly can’t see myself trying to soothe them and their victim illusions or lend legitimacy to them in some city sponsored jazz festival in their honor. 

            Are you surprised that Palestinians aren’t issuing a call to artists to come and play for the occupier? To soothe their souls? really?
            2 hours ago · Like · 5
          • Tali Shapiro Stanley, come on mate, you’d pass by a cop beating a woman and start playing your guitar?! To “sooth his troubled soul” no less?! Wallah, if there was a movement to boycott all policeman’s ball, I’d be the first to sign on to that one. God knows the police has been part and parcel of the occupationhttp://www.en.justjlm.org/568

            2 hours ago · Unlike · 7
          • Emma Rosenthal Stanley, I get the impression you’ve already made your decision to keep the gig, and now you’re just hoping to get approval. I can’t give you that. Beyond that, perhaps you like the attention, or maybe you just want the illusion of having heard “both” sides. I don’t want to be complicit in that, and since I’m not paid for my work (this IS work), I think, unless you can assure me you’re still weighing your options and not just making excuses, then I can’t continue to engage here. I think I’ve given you a lot of my labor for free, at great personal expense of other places I could have put those efforts.
            2 hours ago · Like · 8
          • Adrian Boutureira Sansberro Dear tali and Rima, Where are we sitting and what are we “vigiling” I need to keep an eye on my new year’s Octupus on the stove which is to attempt to cure my Galician homesick blues….
            2 hours ago · Like · 3
          • Making Change Street Newspaper I’m hearing he needs to see our reasons and pick the one that works best, and to show, like you said, Emma that he did indeed think this through thoroughly. I imagine he will play this game till showtime. It sounds to me, that any decision to not play under the apartheid gig was to promote himself with the musicians of that time. Not for any real reason of conscious. I do believe he constructed this thread to play to soothe his own soul.
            2 hours ago · Edited · Like · 1
          • Tali Shapiro I gotta say, I’m with Emma, it feels like you’re not being honest. And I also gotta say, no one is paying me enough (or at all actually) to take that last comment of yours calmly. I’m a survivor of repeated police and army brutality. I doubt I speak only for myself when I say, the next time thishttps://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=1345163152361&set=t.100000182654841&type=3&theater happens to me, don’t do me any favors and serenade my assailant.

            Now, back on topic, have you any complications as to how the Red Sea Jazz Festival is complicit in violations of human rights?
            2 hours ago · Unlike · 5
          • Andy Griggs Stanley, What it sounds like to me, is, I see someone being attacked, I ask how can I help. They tell me, and I suggest that perhaps I might want to do anything but the one thing they ask of me. In your case, what is being asked may cost you some money, some prestige (though it would earn you other prestige– it comes down to which friends you want), and to take a stand. I really can’t see how playing your guitar to a cop attacking someone is going to stop the attack. Emma stands out with her camera when ish goes down and it doesn’t seem to slow them down at all, messing with people. 

            If you get that the Israelis are the cops, and you won’t explain the complications, I really don’t get what it is that is keeping you from doing the right thing, except that you simply don’t want to.
            2 hours ago · Like · 4
          • Andy Griggs OH, and please answer Tali’s questions.
            2 hours ago · Like · 4
          • Elise Hendrick Stanley Jordan Elise, you said, “It would be a bit like someone encountering a woman being beaten up on the pavement, who shouts “Help! Call the cops or get this bastard off me!”, and responding “I really am concerned at your predicament, but I really can’t see calling the cops in such a complicated situation, and intervening directly seems risky, but I would be happy to write to Congress about the need for better laws against violence against women.” 

            “And I realized that my analogy would be different. In my analogy the cop is the one beating up the woman, so there is no one I can call who can stop him”

            Leaving aside that this is a totally false analogy, your conclusion is particularly hard to stomach, since you are using it to justify doing PR work to show that the cops are nice people who help out when they’re needed and wouldn’t think of entertaining a racist thought, let alone being structurally racist.
            2 hours ago · Unlike · 6
          • Rima Najjar I suppose we are vigiling a decision from Stanley. It’s like waiting for the Jury to come out with a verdict. But Emma’s last point makes sense. Does it make sense to continue engaging at this point – even in a vigiling way. I have been at this since early morning my time. I don’t grudge that; it’s just that perhaps I should go to bed now.
            2 hours ago · Unlike · 7
          • Making Change Street Newspaper And that is a valid stand. You can make a very clear statement of support of the occupation, to the contrare of our discussions.
            2 hours ago · Like · 1
          • Andy Griggs And to repeat, we’re just asking you to pull out. We’re not asking you, for example,to join the boycott efforts and get others to boycott too. We’re not asking for any of your time. We’re just asking you to honor the call.
            2 hours ago · Like · 3
          • Tali Shapiro Adrian I’m sitting here. I’m willing to “help” our friend here sort out all complications. Even though he’s yet to acknowledge my existence. And even though he just said something so offensive to me, I’m gonna sit here (and thank my lucky stars he can’t call the police on me) and continue dishing out all the knowledge I’ve accumulated in the past four years, because once I realized what was going on here, one thing was clear: I must tell the world. So here I am, telling my story, telling the truth as I know it. Because one offensive blow from one man is the minimum I have already taken both physically and mentally from this goddamn occupation, and I’ll fucking burn in hell if I don’t see complicity end right here and now.
            2 hours ago · Unlike · 8
          • Andy Griggs Tali the link to the image you posted goes to a private page and isn’t visible to those of us who are not friends with the person posting. Perhaps there are other examples or photos you could post to. I would also like to remind people that Tali is a front line activist who is dedicated to non-violence. She is Israeli. The Israeli military does not defend her right to peaceful protest. The Israeli army repeatedly beats her up and arrests her.
            2 hours ago · Like · 5
          • Stanley Jordan Elise, you make a good point. I actually think neither of our analogies was quite accurate, but still, the fundamental idea of the abused woman is very compelling. And I think it does do a good job of getting across the seriousness of the situation, so thanks for that.
          • Elise Hendrick When we started this discussion, I greatly appreciated your sincerity and your willingness to engage with the facts contributed painstakingly by a number of people who have dedicated their lives to understanding what is going on in Israel/Palestine, our responsibilities, and what we can and should do in order to put an end to the suffering inflicted by a racist regime on an indigenous population, suffering in which many of us in this discussion are at least somewhat complicit, since states claiming to act in our name. using funds provided by our taxes, provide the tormentors with the means to go about their bloody business. 

            As a whole, we have collectively brought on the order of several times as many years dedicated to analysing, studying, and reporting on this issue as Israel counts years of existence, and we have freely dedicated a great deal of our time and effort to what we thought was an honest, open discussion in which you were actively seeking to better understand a situation with which you were unfamiliar.

            Over the past day, Stanley, your responses have become more and more disingenuous, and you have allowed bullying and underhandedness in this discussion by referring vaguely to arguments expressed to you in private. Instead of promoting open discussion by relaying to us the substance of those arguments (if any) so that we would be able to respond and correct any factual inaccuracies, you have kept them in a black box, and brandished it in this discussion as a way of declaring “it’s complicated” in some unspecified way. 

            Stanley, “it’s complicated” is the beginning of an honest discussion, not the end. Many times in discussions on this issue (I have been in many, and I know many of the others who have given of their time here have been in as many, or even more, than I), “it’s complicated” is used as an excuse to avoid recognising racism that one benefits from. It is the cop-out of the “white moderates” that Martin Luther King, Jr energetically condemned in his Letter from a Birmingham Jail, who want to feel that they are on the right side without taking a stand against injustice. 

            If there are complexities that you see that may not be obvious to someone who has spent his or her life understanding this issue, then please, tell us what they are so that we can seriously discuss them. But if you have no specific complexities and you are just trying to use that phrase as an excuse to justify a decision that you never had any intention of reconsidering, then just be honest about it and tell us that we’ve been wasting our time with you. 

            I, regretfully, am beginning to feel much the same way as Emma Rosenthal. The honesty and openness I saw in your initial contributions to this discussion, Stanley, has gone missing. I would like to be wrong about that, because this is an extremely important issue and the survival of a long-tormented people is on the line. This is no place for ego polishing, or for deceiving yourself into thinking you support justice when your actions say otherwise. 

            If I am wrong, then please SHOW ME. Tell us what arguments are being whispered into your ears so that we can discuss them. Tell us what seems so complex to you about the facts here. And LISTEN when people who (by your own admission) know more about this than you point out where you’ve got it wrong.
          • Gabriel Ash Stanley Jordan: Stanely, are you serious? Since morality is part of being human, than it means that to accuse someone of a moral failure is to dehumanize them? You are so eager to defend a straight out racist friend of yours that you fail logic 101. Morality is human because moral failures are also human. Yes, I think pretty much everyone here will agree that crossing the picket line is a moral failure, and no, that does not mean we think you are any less human.
            2 hours ago · Like · 7
          • Elise Hendrickhttp://www.africa.upenn.edu/Articles_Gen/Letter_Birmingham.html

            “First, I must confess that over the past few years I have been gravely disappointed with the white moderate. I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negro’s great stumbling block in his stride toward freedom is not the White Citizen’s Counciler or the Ku Klux Klanner, but the white moderate, who is more devoted to “order” than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice; who constantly says: “I agree with you in the goal you seek, but I cannot agree with your methods of direct action”; who paternalistically believes he can set the timetable for another man’s freedom; who lives by a mythical concept of time and who constantly advises the Negro to wait for a “more convenient season.” Shallow understanding from people of good will is more frustrating than absolute misunderstanding from people of ill will. Lukewarm acceptance is much more bewildering than outright rejection.

            I had hoped that the white moderate would understand that law and order exist for the purpose of establishing justice and that when they fail in this purpose they become the dangerously structured dams that block the flow of social progress. I had hoped that the white moderate would understand that the present tension in the South is a necessary phase of the transition from an obnoxious negative peace, in which the Negro passively accepted his unjust plight, to a substantive and positive peace, in which all men will respect the dignity and worth of human personality. Actually, we who engage in nonviolent direct action are not the creators of tension. We merely bring to the surface the hidden tension that is already alive. We bring it out in the open, where it can be seen and dealt with. Like a boil that can never be cured so long as it is covered up but must be opened with all its ugliness to the natural medicines of air and light, injustice must be exposed, with all the tension its exposure creates, to the light of human conscience and the air of national opinion before it can be cured.”

            www.africa.upenn.edu

            ‎16 April 1963 My Dear Fellow Clergymen: While confined here in the Birmingham city jail, I came across your recent statement calling my present activities “unwise and untimely.” Seldom do I pause to answer criticism of my work and ideas. If I sought to answer all the criticisms that cross my desk, m…
          • Andy Griggs Stanley, you’ve addressed many of us directly. Why are you not engaging Tali Shapiro? It’s almost as if someone has told you not to? What’s going on? And please, if you are sincere about dialogue, do tell, and we’ll discuss– of what complexities do you refer?
          • Adrian Boutureira Sansberro I must brake ranks with some of my comrades..what I am sensing here is not a game, but a huge divide in political consciousness and experience in general, but most specifically around this issue, between Stanley and the rest of us.

            Dont mean to talk about anyone in the third person either, but I believe Stanley is coming at this from a mostly apolitical experience as a musician. Having for many years been part of the musician’s world here in the US, what I am hearing from Stanley here is not at all news to me. In many ways, a lot of it, in terms of the romance with the notion of the artist and of artistic expression as something that can somehow esoterically transcend the “vulgarity” and crude simplicity of material reality and realpolitiks, is what led me to divorce myself from the music community and transition full fledge into the activist community with whatever humble musical talents i may have at my disposal, to be given to that community as support for its efforts to generate positive political change through direct physical actions against injustice. The artist and musician communities in western affluent countries function under rules and parameters of their own, and unlike the realities of artist and musicians in other parts of the world, there is hardly any social or political accountability demanded from our artists and musicians from it’s fan base…After 40 years, the Chilean government announced last week that 7 retired army officers are to be charged with the murder of Victor Jara, one of Latin America’s most significant song writers…I doubt most American music lovers and American musicians even know who Jara is, or that give a shit that justice is finally being served…This, my friends, is the harsh reality of the nature of the beast in these United States…How Stanley fits into this paradigm is for him and his own conscience to wrestle with and define. For the time being,and as frustrated ans I too am with some of his rebuttals that seem to put us back at square one every time, I am not going to allude to this amounting to Stanley playing games with me or with you. it is not what I am getting from this. This is about western privilege and the sad consequences of years of systemic depoliticizing of the arts in Amerikkka. What was the last significant political musical act in the US? Rage Against the Machine?
          • Stanley Jordan Tali, sorry about my bad analogy. My girlfriend pointed out how crappy my analogy was, and it was absolutely stupid and I’m sorry. So please accept my humble apology.
          • Elise Hendrick I’d like an answer to that one as well, Andy.
          • Making Change Street Newspaper I have a friend, Alicia Anahuac, who often posts her views of colonialism, white racist colonialism and also her views of La Malinche, a woman who gave her body in comfort to the spaniard colonial oppressors. When I hear her speak, I often sit and think about my contributions to white racist colonialism, now I hear you speak, and think of La Malinche and her impact upon an entire conquest of a continent. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j_kti1td130 She also has a segment she speaks about la malinche in another video on youtube

            www.youtube.com

            www.youtube.com/user/AnahuacWomenFightSUBSCRIBE NOW !!!!!!!! AnahuacWomenFight November 17, 2008 Re-examining the role that feminism has played in the lives…
          • Jennifer Killen It is already Tuesday 1st January, 2013, here in Sydney. Mate, as others have explained more eloquently than I can, its pretty simple. You can take one small action to support freedom in Palestine, or you can take the money Israel is offering you to play at the festival and use your name to cover up their crimes.
            I wanted to visit South Africa in 1975 but I waited more than 20 years because the people suffering under apartheid there asked for my support. When I finally got to visit there in 1997 I was amazed and embarassed at the number of times I was thanked for the Australia’s solidarity in the struggle. I was also proud that my country was, at that time, on the right side of history.
            • Elise Hendrick I can’t remember Michael Holding expressing any regrets at having turned down the million dollars the Voorster regime was offering for him to play cricket in South Africa as an “honourary white”. It certainly didn’t hurt his career any, either.
              2 hours ago · Like · 4
            • J Kēhaulani Kauanui Come on, Stanley Jordan: DO THE RIGHT THING! It really is as simple as Jennifer Killen right above said: ” You can take one small action to support freedom in Palestine, or you can take the money Israel is offering you to play at the festival and use your name to cover up their crimes.” HONOR THE INTERNATIONAL BOYCOTT! HEED THE CALL OF PALESTINIAN CIVIL SOCIETY! ACKNOWLEDGED AND MIND THE REQUEST FROM PACBI!
              2 hours ago · Edited · Like · 6
            • Tali Shapiro Stanley Jordan, accepted. Now, please answer me this have you read the details of complicity of the the Red Sea Jazz Festival as I detailed them here http://pulsemedia.org/2012/12/25/israel-2012-the-question-of-a-nation-what-does-culture-have-to-do-with-politics-part-2/ (under the subtitle “Who Profits from the Institutionalizing and Normalizing of the Occupation?”) And if you have done so, is anything there unclear to you as to how the festival is complicit with apartheid, military occupation, ethnic cleansing and the erasure of history?

              pulsemedia.org

              Earlier this week, I found a message in my inbox by an Israeli, who’s a Jazz mus…See More
              2 hours ago · Unlike · 7
            • Rima Najjar Stanley, what does your girlfriend think of all this?
              2 hours ago · Unlike · 3
            • J Kēhaulani Kauanui I’d also appreciate you responding to Tali Shapiro andRima Najjar— both right there, RIGHT THERE, in unison. One, an Israeli- the other a Palestinian. Please honor the INSTITUTIONAL BOYCOTT!
              2 hours ago · Unlike · 9
            • J Kēhaulani Kauanui DUDE, It’s a CREDIBILITY ISSUE. If you do this, you will regret it. Trust me. Think of all the musicians who thumbed their noses at the calls from the ANC and played Sun City. Their heads are hanging so low today they can’t see their guitar strings.
              2 hours ago · Unlike · 9
            • Making Change Street Newspaper “So called Xicana feminists Intellectuallize about revolution but do not actively participate in one. they are preoccupied with their individualistic love stories, egotistical contemplations as we continue to be occupied, as we continue to be a stolen nation. “We have been racially and sexually terrorized and assaulted” Alicia Anahuac, White Racist Colonialism
              2 hours ago · Edited · Like · 2
            • Zoë Lawlor Well it’s the new year in Ireland and I am so disappointed that this thread has gone as it has. Stanley, my instinct at the beginning was that you would play, would cross the picket line but were looking for the kudos of having the ‘conversation’ first. I was hoping, willing myself to be wrong, wrong, wrong – but now I don’t know.
              I think that the people on this thread have really worked their socks off to try to show you why and how your actions and solidarity are so important. Everyone here is doing this out of love for justice and for the Palestinian people and out of standing with them however we can in their struggle against apartheid. The fact that the dialogue from the pro-apartheid side has happened off-line really should tell you everything. It also affords no possibility for response to us as we don’t know what has been said apart from your cryptic allusions to ‘complexity’ – I won’t rehearse again how UNcomplex this situation is. 
              It seems to me that you will not hear the Palestinian voice, will not listen to their words, see their situation, offer empathy, lend solidarity. You keep alluding to a better way to ‘help’ – well they don’t want it – they want you not to cross the picket line. It’s that simple. Now you can choose to stand with them or to play for apartheid, cos no matter what your intentions – that’s what playing for a state sponsored festival boils down to. 
              As a woman humanbeing I find your analogy about the cops offensive, as a woman activisthumanbeing, doubly so. I spent a week in an Israeli prison being told with glee about their bombing the Gaza ‘terrorists’ (women, men, children), told that I was not human, I was in a prison where small children are detained before deportation – and this is nothing – thousands of Palestinians are political prisoners – hundreds of them held without charge, many of them children. If you are ok with thinking you can play music to ‘heal’ this, then I don’t know what to say. A lot of this commentary very strangely, elevates art and artists to a level whereby they are apparently more sensitive than the average human being and are somehow exempt from the same moral code as the rest of us – this is not the case. You either play or you don’t – the responsibility is yours.
            • Tali Shapiro wow Making Change Street Newspaper! That video is poetry. Thank you for the healing
            • Making Change Street Newspaper Alicia rox.  So does the rest of the mexica-movement. I have seen them receive a flyer of racist action and react to it within 24 hours in a street protest of the KKK, and their campaign against Christopher Columbus as a holiday, is inspirational.
            • Elise Hendrick Michael Holding’s teammate on the West Indian cricket side, Colin Croft, did decide to take the money and play apartheid cricket: 

              “In 1982 Croft accepted a place on the rebel tour of apartheid-divided South Africa, in violation of an international ban on sports tours of the country. The rebel players were granted “honorary whites” status by the South African government to allow them access to all-white cricket playing areas.[1] All the players who took part in the tour were banned for life from international cricket, thus marking the end of Croft’s cricket playing career. That ban was effectively lifted in 1989, by both the WICB and the UN. Croft moved to the United States to avoid recriminations at home.[2]”

              http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colin_Croft

              In short, I’d say it’s at best a little early to be assuming that refusing to play an apartheid venue would be the end of your career.

              en.wikipedia.org

              Colin Everton Hunte Croft (born 15 March 1953 in Demerara, British Guiana) is a former West Indiancricketer. He provides expert analysis on the British Broadcasting Corporation’s Test Match Special.
            • Adrian Boutureira Sansberro I must confess that I think I have fallen in love with all my Palestinian Solidarity brothers and sisters on this thread, and were I to still have my musical chops, I would surely write you all a beautiful song…Hell, chops or not, I might actually still go get the dusty 12 string out of the closet and give it my best shot after the next glass of vino. You folks are awesome, an inspiration, I hope to meet some of you someday soon somehow…If anyone wants to come see Texas, let me know, mi casa es su casa…This has been a very odd, but also very heart warming space to be in while in a state “awaiting” for the the new year to arrive…Love and solidarity, Adrian
            • Zoë Lawlor By the way, sorry to come so late to the vigil but it is NYE n stuff… Soooooo, what an amazing fount of information has been posted here by brilliant people, I am delighted to have shared in it. If Stanley Jordan chooses to play despite all this then he can never say he didn’t know/wasn’t told. Happy to walk with y’all on the BDS road to justice.
            • Elise Hendrick Zoe: That’s for sure. It would be hard to be more comprehensively ‘on notice’ than Stanley Jordan is right now.
            • Buzz Burza All of West Asian [ the the “Middle” East] was the rump of the faied Turkpire that the Brits and the colonialist buddy, the French, Carved up after the Great War. Their handiwork now plagues us…
            • Jennifer Killen Today, January 1st, is a day of anniversaries — here in Oz it is 113 since Federation, since we became one country rather than half a dozen small British colonies. For you in the USA, it is a very significant anniverary – 150 years since slavery was abolished. The day that President Lincoln proclaimed that slaves should be free could be the day you stand up for freedom for Palestine and Israel.

              It is not just Palestinians who are oppressed by the occupation – one sad consequence I witnessed when I was there was the enslavement of Israeli children, brainwashed and conscripted into the Israeli Occupation Forces. Australia and the USA no longer conscript their children into the military machine (although many are compelled to join up through poverty). However young Israelis who refuse to join the military and become complicit in the Occupation, are imprisoned, just like young men of my generation who refused to join our war in Vietnam.
        • Making Change Street Newspaper another friend from Australia and a commentary on the Palestine/Indigenous struggle –http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DdAVl1LvQL0

          www.youtube.com

          http://thejuicemedia.com/ Rap News, Episode 7: before there was #OccupyWallStreet there was #OccupyWisconsin. It’s 2011 and amid a flurry of political leaks a…
        • Elise Hendrick Jennifer: The US has technically ended conscription, but the militarisation of schools – especially working-class schools for communities of colour – is pervasive, with recruiters roaming the corridors and the increasing use of military-run secondary schools to warehouse the surplus labour of tomorrow.
        • Nicolle Ferris Don’t participate in Apartheid Israel
          about an hour ago via mobile · Like · 3
        • Stanley Jordan Admin for Stanley Jordan: Edie Okamoto. Zoe thanks for being engaged in this conversation whenever emotions run high – people say things that often come out differently than they are intended. Stanley Jordan has been a supported of women’s rights for many years. In fact he used to be a co manager of a woman’s safe house in the 80s.
        • Zoë Lawlor Then Stanley Jordan, you surely understand the necessity of standing strongly WITH those who are being oppressed, beaten down – NOT with their oppressors? I cannot understand your equivocation on this issue given everything you have been told and the principles you say are dear to you.
        • J Kēhaulani Kauanui Hey wait- Has Stanley Jordan himself been part of this thread at all, or is it you Edie Okamoto?
        • Elise Hendrick I sure as hell hope he has.
        • Making Change Street Newspaper And this is a person who has not yet cancelled a performance in the cultural boycott, and has yet to take a position of taking no sides or either side.
        • Making Change Street Newspaper And where is the admin of Stanley Jordan. Why doesn’t he come and participate?
        • Vacy Vlazna Hi Stanley, I resonate to the impetus of your soul. If it were my decision, I would stand for boycott. The Palestinians have, to defend their rights, no army, airforce, navy, nuclear weapons as does their occupier. They are abandoned by western leaders who collaborate in israel’s impunity to make palestinian families suffer daily( let alone decades) ..they have only their sumud- steadfastness, and us and BDS.
        • Vacy Vlazna The time for reconciliation is after Palestine is free.
        • Zoë Lawlor I think that’s the first post not from Stanley himself as it is the first post in the 3rd person, I think!
        • Making Change Street Newspaper Its true, this person of which we all have been speaking, may not be Stanley Jordan.
        • Tali Shapiro is it just on my screen, or did Stanley Jordan‘s one and only acknowledgement of me disappear? Andy I thought you were being paranoid, but this is something else! @_@

          Stanley’s admin, Edie, I’m no PR expert, but I’m pretty sure that after all this, announcing Stanley’s generic support of women’s rights in replacement for what I’ll give the benefit of the doubt for a sincere apology for a comment that could have been understood as mysoginist, is a pretty bad move…

          Now be honest, those last few hours, that was you pretending to be Stanley, wasn’t it?
        • Nicolle Ferris This is the ODDEST discussion I have ever saw?????? Stanley are you seriously acting like you just arrived on this earth yesterday and you want to know what’s going on? This is a VERY serious issue. The once Jewish Oppressed people have now become the Oppressors…. Even Nelson Mandela has said that this situation is much worse than Apartheid Africa!!!! Israel needs to be exposed; Genocide and Murder has to stop. Never mind your fee Stanley or a lost air ticket! This is a very serious moral issue! Stand up for Justice! Do not play in Zionist Israel
          about an hour ago via mobile · Like · 4
        • Making Change Street Newspaper If he moderates Stanley Jordan, then where is he, and where is Stanley Jordan?
        • Elise Hendrick Tali: I don’t see it, either.
        • Making Change Street Newspaper that too is a great way out. act like you are not Stanley Jordan, and don’t take a stand, because you were never taking a stand, and now you are not Stanley Jordan. And Stanley Jordan, will still play with excuses.
        • Elise Hendrick And I would like to reiterate that I find it rather disturbing that the only two people Stanley has consistently refused to acknowledge in this discussion are the Israeli Jewish activist and the Palestinian activist.
        • Tali Shapiro Making Change Street Newspaper stop now, if you get any more existential, you WILL implode!
        • Brian Kelly I don’t know if anyone has spoken to this yet, since there are a lot of comments, but I thought it would be useful to make a quick comment about this idea of an “inner world”. 

          There are a whole lot of Palestinians that don’t get to have an “inner” or an “outer” world because they die very young, or before they are born. Those that do survive face severe constraints on their ‘outer world’ that DEEPLY effects their ‘inner world’. 

          How much of an ‘inner world’ do you have when you live in fear of death, torture, arrest, expulsion from your home, the death of loved ones, beatings, lack of electricity, lack of a safe school environment, and lack of numerous other basic necessities – the list of horrors goes on and on and on?

          Many suffer from extreme Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder. Please watch this short video called “Gaza’s Children Haunted by Nightmares of War”:http://therealnews.com/t2/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=31&Itemid=74&jumival=9412 

          Some statistics about the ‘inner world’ of Gaza’s children:
          ‘92% of children in Gaza are afraid of loud sounds.’
          ‘Close to 70% reported constant nightmares.’
          ‘80% reported bed wetting and night trembling.’
          ‘Other behavioural traits include depression, social isolation, and aggression.’

          They can’t concentrate in school. They can’t sleep. They are depressed. They are constantly in fear for their lives. They wet their beds and tremble in their sleep.

          This is because of apartheid, occupation, war, and their inability to return to their homeland. 

          It is IMPOSSIBLE to separate “inner worlds” from “outer worlds”. They are INSEPARABLE. 

          Of course these horrors effect all Palestinians. But the effects of war, apartheid, and occupation on children is a good example of how horrific Zionism is.

          Please watch that video. That is one of the countless reasons why people are asking you not to cross the picket line and to join the boycott of Israel.

          therealnews.com

          UNICEF report indicates vast majority of Gaza’s children are struggling to cope with war trauma and PTSD
          58 minutes ago · Edited · Unlike · 7
        • Stanley Jordan My sincere apology holds, but my publicist erased the comments. You may contact her at: Edie Okamoto <eokamoto@riovida.net>
        • Tali Shapiro Beautiful Brian! And on that note I’d like to addhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FLfB76IKFQc

          www.youtube.com

          ‎- Palestinian witness from Gaza Strip – Message of 20 november 2012, during the…See More
        • Osie Gabriel Adelfang Holy moly, I hear hundreds of posts telling you the same thing and it’s not complicated. Are thereof two sides to slavery? To the Holicaust, sure, and one dide is the moral side.
        • Nicolle Ferris Very true Brian Kelly… If Stanley doesn’t take all that on and still plays… Disgusting and not worth it!
          about an hour ago via mobile · Like · 4
        • Karen MacRae I think if i was being petitioned not to play Israel by BDS activists, I would be very shamed and embarrassed to play the gig, especially with all the first hand knowledge, experiences and journey’s that so many diverse people have shared here. It is worse to fully understand a situation and knowingly make yourself complicit than it is to be an unsuspecting pawn of a brutal regime. Obviously, at the end of the day, it’s going to be Stanley’s final decision however, Stanley, this will come and bite you one day. The zionist regime will crumble. The wall will come down. The relentless illegal settlements will halt, the kidnapping and imprisonment of children will stop, the extrajudicial killings will end, prisoners will return to the arms of their wives, their husbands, their children and Palestine will be free. This is history. Regimes cannot exist forever because the truth shines in the darkness. Always. And history always remembers too. It cherishes the heroes while exposing the complicit. And it will remember you. I hope you do the right thing. This hasn’t been a pleasure for me reading your excuses the shifting of the goalposts, the apologia as it hasn’t for anyone else. It’s just as difficult for me to understand why it’s taken so many painful, emotional gut wrenching posts and still you are not convinced. Why you insult Israelis and Palestinians who live this everyday. Why you condescendingly lecture them on how complicated it is. As I know my comrades are wondering. is this even you administering this page? I question why the tone has changed so dramatically and so often. Again,if it is you posting, if you are sincere, if you do care about human rights and justice, I hope you will find it in yourself to respect this request and not play this gig. If it’s not you and it’s been a game from the beginning? Well fuck you.
        • Tali Shapiro Maybe you ought to contact her, Stanley Jordan, she seems not to be acting in your best interest. You still haven’t answered me though. have you read the details of complicity of the the Red Sea Jazz Festival as I detailed them here http://pulsemedia.org/2012/12/25/israel-2012-the-question-of-a-nation-what-does-culture-have-to-do-with-politics-part-2/ (under the subtitle “Who Profits from the Institutionalizing and Normalizing of the Occupation?”) And if you have done so, is anything there unclear to you as to how the festival is complicit with apartheid, military occupation, ethnic cleansing and the erasure of history?

          pulsemedia.org

          Earlier this week, I found a message in my inbox by an Israeli, who’s a Jazz musician, who’s paying gig was canceled because of a successful BDS movement campaign to get Swedish Jazzist, Andreas Öb…
        • Mohammed JH It seems that someone has forgotten to answer the dialog he asked for..
        • Nicolle Ferris I think Stanley has been smoking the wacky backy… I don’t believe there is any admin… I’ve resorted to think this guy is a fruitcake … Happy New year folks x
          about an hour ago via mobile · Like · 1
        • Damon Nasser Bath -.- these words…..”mutual compassion” “healing and togetherness” …-.-
        • Zoë Lawlor sO Stanley Jordan, why did your publicist just delete some comments? Were her comments to me representative of your opinion? “Admin for Stanley Jordan: Edie Okamoto. Zoe thanks for being engaged in this conversation whenever emotions run high – people say things that often come out differently than they are intended. Stanley Jordan has been a supported of women’s rights for many years. In fact he used to be a co manager of a woman’s safe house in the 80s.”
        • Osie Gabriel Adelfang You know why the “private” folks aren’t on thread? Everyone has been civil and factual, no fictitious bullying. THEY ARENT POSTING BECAUSE WE WOULD CORRECT THE LIES THEY ARE FEEDING YOU AND YOU ARE EATING UP COZ YOU NEVER HAD ANY INTENTION OF HONORING THE BOYCOTT, be honest. I’ll be honest: I’ve never heard of you. if you stood up for justice, I would have heard and wanted to learn more. You have wasted a lot of caring people’s time. I hope other folks reading this wealth of information with an open mind have learned something useful.
        • Making Change Street Newspaper someone will have to find an alternate contact for Stanley Jordan and forward the link to the discussion. people should know, that there is no evidence that Stanley Jordan is actually involved in this discussion and should rely on alternatively contacting him through his publicists or off fb contacts.
        • Nicolle Ferris Stanley Jordan equals Wacky Backy smoker looking for attention!
          about an hour ago via mobile · Like · 1
        • Elise Hendrick ” The once Jewish Oppressed people have now become the Oppressors…. “

          If we accept the overlapping assumptions of Zionism and traditional antisemitism, it certainly may seem valid to equate the actions of the Israeli state – which falsely claims to act on behalf of all Jews – with the entire Jewish population in the world, but there is no reason to concede this ground to racist ideologies.

          It is not the Jewish people who are the oppressors of the Palestinians – it is the Zionist state, crucially sponsored by the United States.
        • Elise Hendrick “Nicolle Ferris Stanley Jordan equals Wacky Backy smoker looking for attention!”

          Do you seriously think that remarks like that are in any way helpful?
        • Making Change Street Newspaper Now finally the break, to the open comments crowd we were all missing for so long.
        • Nicolle Ferris Yes Elise; that’s true! But all these very QUIET Jews who don’t say a whisper in all this are just as guilty…. Stand up for Justice and yes… Elise; Stanley Jordan is ridiculous…
        • Brian Kelly What does this mean???: “My sincere apology holds, but my publicist erased the comments. You may contact her at: Edie Okamoto <eokamoto@riovida.net>”

          It would be a travesty if you allowed your publicist to delete comments. You’re responsible for that if it happens.
        • Making Change Street Newspaper Edie, you can start by verifying your identity. might be his girlfriend too. its an escape till they figure out what to do next. touche’ elise, I was confounded he did not react at all to the monkey bar. i would have thought it could unravel the average “man” or “woman”. but it really makes sense. it could be both commenting alternately depending on their energy level. if an admin was cruising the thread deleting comments, it makes sense too, because, thats what happened earlier in the temporary block. no one has been banned, or captcha’d I remind you. and what is riovida? river of life. who cares about water and life, and can’t take a stand on a performance in a cultural boycott over the Israeli Occupation of Palestine?
        • Zoë Lawlor Nicolle, your racist comments are not welcome and do not serve the Palestinians.
        • Karen MacRae “One of the most fervent and forceful political statements to emerge from Eighties pop music, Sun City didn’t achieve the sales or wide radio airplay of other “cause” records like We Are the World. Nevertheless, the single and the accompanying album managed to achieve their primary goals: to draw attention to South Africa’s racist policy of apartheid and to support a cultural boycott of the country.

          “It was completely successful, and that’s such a rare thing,” says Sun City organizer and coproducer Steve “Little Steven” Van Zandt, who rallied dozens of top rock, funk, rap and jazz acts to work on the project. “Issue-oriented events and records can be very frustrating, because you really don’t see the results, whether it’s feeding people in Ethiopia or raising money for AIDS research. Our goal was to stop performers from going there, and to this day no major artists of any integrity have played Sun City.”

          Read more: http://www.rollingstone.com/music/lists/100-best-albums-of-the-eighties-20110418/artists-united-against-apartheid-sun-city-20110330#ixzz2GgK3L3ji 
          Follow us: @rollingstone on Twitter | RollingStone on Facebook

          www.rollingstone.com

          One of the most fervent and forceful political statements to emerge from Eighties pop music, Sun City didn’t achieve the sales or wide radio airplay o
        • Nicolle Ferris Zoe; reflect! I am no racist…. Your just not educated enough to understand!
        • Zoë Lawlor LOVE  for artists who stand in solidarity with the occupied, the oppressed. This is humanity. One world, one love.
        • Nicolle Ferris If being Anti Zionist makes me racist; or anti Semitic! Heard it all before love… Boring!
        • Karen MacRae “Our goal was to stop performers from going there, and to this day no major artists of any integrity have played Sun City.” This Stanley, is OUR goal too. Please repeat your principled actions and and continue to be the artist of integrity you were when you played on the Sun City Album.
        • Making Change Street Newspaper Whoever said in this thread that this might be a front page, to get the one-sided argument on the BDS issue, without any interference as part of the groups marketing strategy, – you win the prediction of thread award. lol But rest assured, someone was thoroughly frustrated and captivated.
          59 minutes ago · Edited · Like · 1
        • Karen MacRae Get Nicolle off this thread before she ruins the hard work everyone has put in here. She is playing right into zionist ideology. Jews are NOT oppressing Palestinians. Please, she is not a comrade if she continues with her racist and false comments. Do not listen to her.
        • J Kēhaulani Kauanui I don’t think he’s on the line. I think thats Edie covering her bum by posting her own email to take responsibility for erasing the remarks and just making it look like their are coming from him, because I don’t think he would actually post her email! This is a waste of time.
        • Elise Hendrick “Nicolle Ferris Zoe; reflect! I am no racist…. Your just not educated enough to understand!”

          That sounds suspiciously like “it’s complicated”, and is almost funny given that it is directed at someone like Zoe, who has actually spent time in Israeli prisons for her activism.
        • Elise Hendrick This is perhaps an opportune moment to recall what leading Palestinian BDS activists themselves have to say about this conflation of Israel with Jews:

          http://electronicintifada.net/blogs/ali-abunimah/struggle-palestinian-rights-incompatible-any-form-racism-or-bigotry-statement

          electronicintifada.net

          Palestinians affirm that “the struggle for our inalienable rights is one opposed to all forms of racism and bigotry, including, but not limited to, anti-Semitism, Islamophobia, Zionism and other forms of bigotry.”
        • Tali Shapiro @Nicolle Ferris, Zoë is just pointing out the difference between Zionism and Judaism. There are very quiet everybody elses that are just as guilty. We’ve spent hours on this thread detangling anything that might be “complicated” for the benifit of Stanley Jordan and there’s no need to come in and jumble it up again. We’ve been through this at around comment 200.
        • Nicolle Ferris I never said Jews are oppressing Palestinians! Your all sick!!!!!!
        • Elise Hendrick Yes, you did, Nicolle. I quote: ” The once Jewish Oppressed people have now become the Oppressors…. “

          Now please stop trolling what has otherwise been a productive thread.
        • Making Change Street Newspaper J Kehaulani Kauanui, you are remarkable, you and EVERYONE on this thread has been amazing. Happy New Year to all. Lets all friend up. Keep it up. We all cracked the egg together. Still more to do.
        • Fred Carroll Believing one’s own B.S. is the greatest temptation……
        • Nicolle Ferris Yes I stand by that in context of Israel as its Jewish Zionist state as this is what we are talking about right!!!! The oppressed are now the oppressors! Don’t take it out of context. I am no racist and won’t have that smart arse card thrown at me!
        • J Kēhaulani Kauanui Edie – do your boss a favor and let him know if he plays Sun City, ahem, I mean Israel, he will definitely regret it. His reputation down the tubes. No credibility. Like the Violent Femmes song “Kiss off” says, “I hope you know that this will go down on your personal record…”
        • Elise Hendrick Nicolle: The only real question I have for you is whether you are sabotaging this thread out of your own ignorance or because you were sent to do so.
        • Making Change Street Newspaper Nicole, a word to the young padawans, – don’t tell people they are all sick, when in the middle of a boycott vigil.
        • Nicolle Ferris Anyone is calls me racist is sick!
        • Elise Hendrick Not to mention that it’s bloody ableist. Using “sick” as an insult just stigmatises people who actually have some disease or other.
        • Nicolle Ferris Who is Elise? The bully police? Something quite sinister about you…
        • Zoë Lawlor As Nicolle is here to sabotage for whatever reasons, methinks not engaging is the best way not to derail this great thread….
        • Tali Shapiro Yes, I’d like to get back on topic please, so Stanley Jordan/Edie, whoever you are, have you read the details of complicity of the the Red Sea Jazz Festival as I detailed them here http://pulsemedia.org/2012/12/25/israel-2012-the-question-of-a-nation-what-does-culture-have-to-do-with-politics-part-2/(under the subtitle “Who Profits from the Institutionalizing and Normalizing of the Occupation?”) And if you have done so, is anything there unclear to you as to how the festival is complicit with apartheid, military occupation, ethnic cleansing and the erasure of history?

          pulsemedia.org

          Earlier this week, I found a message in my inbox by an Israeli, who’s a Jazz musician, who’s paying gig was canceled because of a successful BDS movement campaign to get Swedish Jazzist, Andreas Öb…
        • Elise Hendrick http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aopKk56jM-I

          www.youtube.com

          Not long after Band Aid and We Are The World focused musical attention on poverty and famine, a collection of artists took a similar approach in the struggle…
        • Nicolle Ferris I stand for Palestinians! I am against Zionism and Apartheid Israel…. Negative people move over… Your only another brick in the apartheid wall….
          36 minutes ago via mobile · Like · 2
        • Making Change Street Newspaper dayyy after to-day… I get angry, but I will say… that the day… that’s in my sights, we’ll all take a bow, and say good night…. lol J J Kēhaulani Kauanui
        • Tali Shapiro Can somebody who Stanley Jordan has been courteous enough to acknowledge and actually speak with reask the question? maybe YOU’ll get an answer. (Stanley, I speak to the wall once a week, usually on fridays while being shot at, you are hardly gonna break me with ignoring me  )
        • Nate Glenn Stanley Jordan, you should look at the photo Tali sent to you, where she is being brutally assaulted for protesting against an ethnic state which is destroying an entire ethnic group because that ethnic group (palestinians) are native to that country but are not welcome within it. They are spoken of as a “demographic threat” and they are excluded by definition from the state similarly to the way jews were excluded from citizenship in nazi germany. If you do not support ethnic states, like nazi germany, apartheid south africa, jim crowe mississippi, or israel, then you should think twice about participating in their campaign of normalization of crimes against humanity by ignoring the call for BDS and playing in israel. Do not drown out Tali’s screams, do not drown out the screams of righteous israeli citizens who are fighting for justice, do not drown out the screams of the palestinian women and children who are being pushed from their homes, tortured, murdered, and slowly, systematically stifled and strangled in an effort to destroy their identity and make them disappear from a country which was built to exclude them. Don’t do it, because if you do, it will never be forgotten. What you do now has meaning and will not be forgotten.
        • Zoë Lawlor I would Tali but I was also ignored except when SJ’s publicist addressed me as Stanley in the third person
        • 4 hours ago · Like · 5
        • Elise Hendrick I’m still waiting to hear what he reckons is so “complex” about the situation and what arguments are being made in private.
          4 hours ago · Like · 4
        • Andy Griggs The deleted post read: 

          “Stanley Jordan: Tali, sorry about my bad analogy. My girlfriend pointed out how crappy my analogy was, and it was absolutely stupid and I’m sorry. So please accept my humble apology.
          about an hour ago · Like · 1″
          4 hours ago · Like · 6
        • Tali Shapiro Andy do you have the original post that merited that apology? it’s also been erased by the publicist.
          4 hours ago · Edited · Like · 1

          • Charlotte Kates It’s still not complicated…everyone on this thread has provided so much information as to why. Direct research, lived experience, personal and verified testimony. There are no “two sides” here except justice and injustice, oppressor and oppressed. Palestinians aren’t asking people to help them “heal” or to help them “reconcile” while injustice, occupation, land confiscation, home demolition, mass imprisonment, apartheid, settlement construction, racism and discrimination, siege and blockade, are going on continuously and currently. Palestinians are asking artists and cultural workers around the world to, indeed, help everyone to come to a place that real healing can truly happen – which first means ending injustice, ending occupation, stopping settlements, allowing refugees to exercise their rights to return home, dismantling apartheid. That’s the path to healing. And how can international artists and cultural workers help bring that about? By refusing to perform for the war machine, the propaganda machine, the occupation state. By honouring the picket line established by Palestinian civil society. By recognizing the Palestinian call for boycott, divestment and sanctions. The choice is yours: oppressor or oppressed, justice or injustice. Sometimes sides must be chosen: to do otherwise simply perpetuates and applies a veneer of false normality to the ongoing oppression. This is one of those times.
        • Elise Hendrick Charlotte: I agree. My point is that someone who says “it’s complicated” is obliged out of honesty and respect for the other participants in the discussion to explain what they think is complicated. Otherwise, it’s just an excuse to avoid discussion.
          4 hours ago · Like · 3
        • Gale Courey Toensing Ok, so what’s happening? Did Stanley Jordan announce his decision?
        • Zoë Lawlor No announcement yet although it should be around now, no?
          4 hours ago · Unlike · 3

          Charlotte Kates Absolutely Elise, I agree, and it’s usually more of an evasion than a belief. There is a huge amount of pro-apartheid energy dedicated to affirming that “it’s complicated” when it’s really quite simple. The “it’s complicated” mythology include “a conflict of thousands of years” (easily disproven by a simple historical review), “those people can never get along” (based primarily on racism but again easily disproven), “there’s violence on both sides” (straight victim-blaming, as the consequence of this never seems to be that Israeli violence must end),” etc.

          There are, of course, other kinds complications. Threats and, in fact, actual bullying, by apartheid supporters, that this would damage a career. Personal attacks of the type many people in this thread have been subject to. Standing with the oppressed is never entirely “safe,” although it is certainly always safer than living under the oppression in question. There are those “complications,” and one imagines they are more difficult to address forthrightly.

          If one is simply confused about the history, reality, or legality of the present situation, the accumulated knowledge on this thread is more than sufficient to provide answers to any such “complicated” questions.
        • Elise Hendrick Charlotte: Interestingly, there doesn’t seem to have been a single artist who has suffered any adverse professional consequences due to respecting the Palestinian picket line.
          4 hours ago · Unlike · 4

          • Charlotte Kates Of course, there haven’t been. The examples of Roger Waters and Pink Floyd, the Gorillaz, Cassandra Wilson, Elvis Costello, and many many others all with stellar careers, speak precisely to that. But we know there are anonymous silent people saying things off of this thread, trying to create “complications” of all kinds. If such concerns about “contractual obligations” or bullying/threats(raised earlier) exist, they can easily be addressed with facts and reality.
        • Sylvia Posadas If you, Stanley Jordan, have worked in a safe house for women, you’d know how essential it is to create interventions which strategically end the abuse in order that healing can commence. Likewise, you are being requested to support the Palestinian victims of abuse by the apartheid Israeli state. There’s no two ‘sides’ here, no equivocation possible between the powerful and powerless. I’m sure your logical ethical responsibililty will locate the correct decision, and that you will see through the duplicitous narrative of the abusive Israeli state and those who wish to protect their privilege it supplies. Your alliance with oppressed Palestinian people cannot be claimed unless you respect their tactic for liberation.

          Also, Stanley, I can’t find an answer to my question about what you consider to be the strongest argument against BDS you’ve been presented. Please forgive me if I’ve missed it. And Happy New Year
          3 hours ago · Edited · Like · 5
        • Elise Hendrick Yes, how many of those women’s husbands would have told you how complicated it is?
          3 hours ago · Unlike · 6
        • Andy Griggs Here’s the comment that I think was the cause for the apology: 

          “This argument was very compelling, and very moving, and when I first read it my thought was, “I’m such an idiot, how could I even think of not supporting this movement!” But then I thought, “Wait a minute, who exactly are the cops in this scenario?” And I realized that my analogy would be different. In my analogy the cop is the one beating up the woman, so there is no one I can call who can stop him, and yet I feel compelled to do something so I think “maybe I can at least talk to him, or play my guitar and try to sooth his troubled soul” but I’m told “No your only option is to cancel your gig at the policeman’s ball.”

          I know Stanley apologized for it, twice, now. And I appreciate that, but he’s absolutely right. If he plays for apartheid, he’s essentially playing for the cop while he beats the woman.
          3 hours ago · Unlike · 5
        • Stanley Jordan Edie Publicist for Stanley Jordan here: Hello Zoe, Tali and Nate, thank you all for participating in the discussion. Stanley needs a rest and that is why I am helping him out now. I recommend that we all try to focus on love and peace. One of the ideas we have to organize an awareness raising concert regarding the children and their PSTD. With effort and assistance from other artists we may be able to turn it into a fund raising concert to support peace loving organizations. Hope you all enjoy the change of the Gregorian Calendar from the year 2012 to 2013. Love and Light, Edie Okamoto PS: Tali Stanley has been reading every post personally and he needs to take a rest and nurture his own relationships. Your respect and continued support is much appreciated.
        • Emma Rosenthal Peace and love is all we’re focused on here. The idea that activists are somehow not peaceful and not loving because we confront situations that lack peace and lack love, that we call out what Martin Luther king would refer to as the negative peace, is really outrageous. Peace activism is often persistent and confrontational. Playing music to apartheid isn’t peace and love. IT’s the negative peace.
          3 hours ago · Like · 8
        • Emma Rosenthal I also want to speak to the whole “it’s complicated” assertion, and to those of us who quickly dismiss it. It would seem that “it’s complicated” would be a proposal for deeper discussion and analysis, but it’s really offered as a dismissal. That’s what’s key. It may be complicated, most situations with people are. So let’s talk more!!!! not less. I’ve seen racists simplify complicated situations, looking only at the surface for stereotypes and events that support those stereotypes. Deep analysis, even doing the right thing means being willing to look at complexities.
          3 hours ago · Like · 4
        • Sylvia Posadas How is love and peace possible without justice? Palestinian people don’t want anaesthetic and bandaids, though free movement of medicines into Gaza would be greatly appreciated – they require JUSTICE, and their full human rights.
          3 hours ago · Unlike · 4
        • Stanley Jordan by Edie Okamoto publicist for Stanley – he is resting now … Elise Hendrick – our love and appreciation for all victims of any violence is dear to our heart. No one should be physically or emotionally abused. Everyone must work together to encourage civilized discourse. The causes of frustrations need to be addressed in early childhood. We may wish to have a different trail of discussion about domestic abuse which is rampant all around the world. Our heart goes out to you. Shedding light on this issue is very important. Unfortunately abusers are often victims of abuse themselves. The only way we can stop it – is to focus on all of society to be more polite and focus on teaching positive ways to communicate. It is okay to share ones pain and frustration – it is not okay to dump it on any body else. Love and Light, Edie
        • Sylvia Posadas Yes, abusers are often victims of abuse themselves, and it’s pertinent that if that abuse was stopped at the time, the cycle would not have continued. It’s also relevant that BDS is solidly grounded in human rights, and rejects all racism and bigotry, conditions which create the substrate for abuse to occur.
          3 hours ago · Unlike · 4
        • Stanley Jordan Dear All, my identity is easily checked up on. Edie Okamoto – CEO and President of RioVida Networks. www.riovida.net I also work as a consultant and I suggest you google my name. All of our artists are committed to put their art to work for the betterment of society. I also serve on the board of several companies and am very focused on launching a new company that focuses on addressing the health crisis in America through education. You may reach me via my email eokamoto@riovida.net – I recently moved offices and had to change my main phone number. email and I will try to answer each request. Love and Light, Edie Okamoto

          www.riovida.net

          RioVida Networks brings together celebrities, causes, media and corporations for mutual benefit.
        • Stanley Jordan Sylvia Posadas – Edie Okamoto publicist for Stanley Jordan while he is resting and meditating for peace. You may greatly enjoy watching Mosaic which is an award winning news show created by Link TV. The founders of Link TV are friends – one of them an Israeli of German descent and another one a Palestinian of Arab descent. They are both tired of all the conjectures and started collaborating. The key to peace is true and respectful communications with all parties listening to each other. Currently 20% of all Israelis are of Arab descent and they are not being treated like the people in Germany, Poland or South Africa and in fact if you read Israeli newspapers many young Israelis are in support of a peace treaty. The extreme factions in each country are not ready to stop the fighting and it takes more and more and more peace loving people to have peace loving people turn into the majority on each side. Your contributions are valued and appreciated. Love and Light, Edie
          2 hours ago · Like · 1
        • Sylvia Posadas Edie, the boycott, divestment and sanctions movement represents all three sections of Palestinians – Palestinians who live in Israel who are second class citizens by virtue of around 43 laws which discriminate against them, Palestinians who reside in the Occupied Territories and who are deprived of all human and political rights by their brutal military Occupier, and Palestinian refugees who cannot return home due to the racist nature of the Israeli state. BDS has an overwhelming consensus of support from Palestinians from these three groups. It is a non-violent tactic to address a situation perpetrated by a state which is currently in breach of 35 UN Security Council resolutions. With all due respect, there are many ‘peace’ initiatives by those of good intent, yet these initiatives are bandaids as long as the basic justice and rights issues remain unaddressed. Furthermore to carry on as though all is normal, and can be solved by ‘peace and dialogue’ is specificially addressed in PACBI’s guidelines against normalisation. http://pacbi.org/etemplate.php?id=1749

          ‘The Palestinian Campaign for the Academic and Cultural Boycott of Israel (PACBI) has defined normalization specifically in a Palestinian and Arab context “as the participation in any project, initiative or activity, in Palestine or internationally, that aims (implicitly or explicitly) to bring together Palestinians (and/or Arabs) and Israelis (people or institutions) without placing as its goal resistance to and exposure of the Israeli occupation and all forms of discrimination and oppression against the Palestinian people.” [2] This is the definition endorsed by the BDS National Committee (BNC).’

          pacbi.org

          In the Palestinian and Arab struggle against Israeli colonization, occupation and apartheid, the “normalization” of Israel is a concept that has generated controversy because it is often misunderstood or because there are disagreements on its parameters.  This is despite the near consensus among Pal…
          2 hours ago · Unlike · 2
        • Tali Shapiro Hey there Stanly’s publicist. Yes we all have loved ones and relationships to nurture. My relationship happens to be on the other side of the apartheid wall, so nurturing becomes slightly more… ehem… “complicated”. It’s very nice to be reassured that Stanly is reading all my posts, but he has yet to regard them, and I’ve been asking one simple question since way before he went to sleep. 

          has Stanley Jordan read the details of complicity of the the Red Sea Jazz Festival as I detailed them here http://pulsemedia.org/2012/12/25/israel-2012-the-question-of-a-nation-what-does-culture-have-to-do-with-politics-part-2/(under the subtitle “Who Profits from the Institutionalizing and Normalizing of the Occupation?”) And if he has, is anything there unclear?

          pulsemedia.org

          Earlier this week, I found a message in my inbox by an Israeli, who’s a Jazz musician, who’s paying gig was canceled because of a successful BDS movement campaign to get Swedish Jazzist, Andreas Öb…
          2 hours ago · Unlike · 5
        • Stanley Jordan Tali Shapiro – Edie Okamoto, publicist for Stanley Jordan. Tali, thank you for your activist fervor. You are the kind of person who has a big impact on the world – probably for many years now. Stanley has read everyone of your posts and he is very concerned about your feelings. He needed to get some rest since it is important that he attends to his body. Musicians work very hard and they need rest sometimes. Your kind understanding is much appreciated. He believes that everyone has a right to state their opinion pro and con – or in between. Everyone should have a right to speak their mind. You are like a voice in the wilderness and very important. Stanley Jordan has devoted his life to beautify the world with music and music education. Each of us are in this world with a special gift and hopefully each of us have a right to blossom into our own full potential. The children in Palestine and the children in Israel should all be able to go to sleep feeling safe without stress, getting ready for their school so they can prepare for a future in which they can carry out a their chosen profession. You mentioned that you are being shot at – that sounds horrible. I hope you were kidding. Do you live in a war zone? Love and Light, Edie
        • Osie Gabriel Adelfang Why can’t a publicist post as his/her self? A friend suggested I come witness on this thread but every time I come check…this is all nuts. Is this guy and or publicist for real? I don’t know who Stanley is, probably no one in Israel gives a f*ck whether he plays or not, they won’t notice his presence or absence, it’s his conscience. If he would have played Sun City because the white South Africans would have been so moved by his greatness they would have released Mandela immediately and saved us all a lot of trouble, by all means, he must go on his urgent journey and bring peace and love to Palestine. Let’s all move on to something more interesting and worthwhile and leave him to his meditations/ peace out.
          2 hours ago · Like · 1
        • Andy Griggs Tali lives in Israel. Yes, she lives in a war zone. She’s an activist who participates in peaceful demonstrations every Friday, in the West Bank and in Jerusalem. Peaceful protesters are shot at, tear gassed, stink sprayed, attacked and arrested by the Israeli military. No she wasn’t joking. love and light!
          2 hours ago · Like · 5
        • Sylvia Posadas New Age Apartheid

          In light and love
          no more enemies
          knock at the door
          at 2 a.m. to drag away
          the children
          to the dungeons
          where they will be
          verballed,
          detained till they
          implicate out of fear
          and next week the
          boots will kick at the door
          in light and love
          at gunpoint take
          husband for years
          on no charge
          no trial,
          robbing light and love
          no more enemies
          they think
          when all are driven
          from coveted land.

          Sylvia Posadas, December 2012
          2 hours ago · Like · 5
        • Emma Rosenthal Tali’s not kidding. It’s what we’ve been talking about. You can keep saying love and light, but if you don’t want to deal with harsh realities all it is is think white paint.
          2 hours ago · Like · 2
        • Tali Shapiro Stanley Jordan’s publicist, me and my boyfriend getting together for a romp in the hay (pardon the french) did not bring peace, and neither will collaborations of business that benefit private owners and investors. Telling lovely stories of collaborations will not bring peace, and dare I (or a whole movement for that matter) argue that these stories, used in the way you are using them now, only further us away from peace. You want peace? You don’t meditate. You do the work. I went and learned about the occupation, about the apartheid policies, about the history and present of ethnic cleansing, I learned what my part in them was, I put everything on the line. I met a lovely man while doing so. So now what? Do I stop everything because I’ve been “enlightened by love”, sit back and say “but look, we can all just get along, all we need to do is start thinking with our inner hormones”? That ain’t peace. That is abuse of the love and trust my partner has invested in me. I need to continue doing exactly what I was doing that got him to love me in the first place and that’s resisting apartheid.

          Secondly, you’re wrong about your statistics and I don’t know what papers you read: Currently 20% of citizens of israel are Palestinian Arabs/ Non Jewish Arabs. 60% of the Jewish population is also of Arab decent. They are referred to as Mizrahis, and that’s a whole other can of nuance from the 50’s I’d just love to spring on ya, but I don’t think it will help with the de-“complicating” of it all. The 20% non-jewish Arab population is suffering sever discrimination. Stanley can read all about it here (it wouldn’t hurt you to do so as well)http://imeu.net/news/article0021536.shtml 

          Thirdly, really Edie, you might want to start reading this thread from the top because this statement indicates you are missing the most basic information about the situation

          ” The extreme factions in each country are not ready to stop the fighting …”

          Edie, Stanley, whoever: There are no two countries at war here. Palestinians are not from Palestinia. Zionists were given the territory by the occupying British and took over the rest of it by force from Egypt and Jordan, meanwhile completely disregarding the indigenous inhabitants of the land.

          I redirect you to the introductory films, I’ve linked before:
          Occupation 101 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1rSd9HuPZYU (you’ll find parts 1-10 on the sidebar) 
          Peace, Propaganda and The Promised Land http://www.youtube.co/playlist?list=PLA167244AFCB71BF7
          Al nakba http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bm7dMhE80dw

          imeu.net

          Factsheets section of the Institute for Middle East Understanding
          2 hours ago · Edited · Unlike · 4
        • Stanley Jordan I recommend to listen to Obiwok “The Wall” Reverbnation… We are dealing with it every day. We just do it with love and light and we are pleased to say that young man are going back to school, husbands are going home to their wives and helping their kids do homework. Love is just as powerful as fear and pain. It takes a lot of strength and staying power. Nice men finish last, since they are the last men standing. We are into peace – genuinely. I do appreciate your whitewash comment so –  it does not apply to us. I have not been called an “honorary ghost for nothing.”  Love and more love and more light, Edie Okamoto
        • Aqeelah Billingslea Edie and Stanley; …and them they came for me.
          Glad we didn’t wait for love and light for our civil rights in the USA. 
          Sorely disappointed. …Do you live in a war zone? Technically no more akin to a slaughter or massacre zone.
          2 hours ago via mobile · Like · 3
        • Emma Rosenthal Edie, I think it’s wonderful that he’s meditating, if that brings him closer to a just decision, if it gives him the strength to do the more difficult task, to change course, to act from courage. Too often, though, when people say “love and light” it doesn’t feel loving and it doesn’t feel light. You sound VERY judgmental, and it concerns me. Who is advocating fear and pain? It takes great courage to do the deep work of social justice. It costs us our jobs, community, families, health and sometimes our lives. We do it anyway from a place of deep love and commitment. Please don’t make light of it, with fluffy nuances that obliterate what real love and light would manifest. Read Martin Luther King’s Letter from Birmingham Jail. It’s been linked several times in this thread. Read the thread. It’s clear you have not, from much of your commentary. (Like the assertion that there re 2 countries. There are not 2 countries. You look really uninformed and highly opinionated, which comes across as arrogant. You don’t want that do you? Treat us with respect. Stanley asked for feedback in this difficult decision. We have indulged him with the love and light of hours of work.
          2 hours ago · Like · 3
        • Emma Rosenthal Also, you don’t have to act for him. Let him meditate. We can wait.
          2 hours ago · Like · 3
        • Tali Shapiro Folks at the publicity office, I can do without the platitudes. It’s great that Stanley believes I have a right to speak my mind, my state does not; this whole conversation could get me sued by the Red Sea Jazz Festival organizers and they wouldn’t even need to prove damages https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:KvJ8XdisPgwJ:www.adalah.org/upfiles/2011/12_July_2011_antiboycott.pdf+&hl=en&gl=il&pid=bl&srcid=ADGEESixY_u3hWhjaSGxctrIor6_ueM2cgs6bu4aJRyeUBeq_hbC_uSIJ6xAsZk-lLwQRgSqS-QX5UW_3M8sjZgfgsfgWsQ2jQfbxt8DHJNyjUbwwralXzenOFOZpHD8jTviXt6XVtWA&sig=AHIEtbQEyH9qXNiPf-wl9_fKWPAEVGFKKQ (not to mention the Israeli secret service on our tails http://www.haaretz.com/news/features/the-shin-bet-s-murky-world-of-delegitimization.premium-1.489521)

          No Edie, I do not live in a war zone. I live on the fully occupied land that is known as Tel Aviv. It used to be called Tel al Rabia’, you may know it for it’s sunny beaches and night clubs. When I first discovered of what was going on, right under my nose and in my name, I decided to join other Israelis at the demonstrations in the West Bank villages, who’s lands were being annexed by the apartheid wall. That was 4 years ago, I still go every Friday. The West Bank IS a war zone. Palestinians are not allowed to protest the theft of their own land. They are shot at for this act.
        • Tom Pessah the reason WHY some Israelis are supportive of BDS is precisely that we do live in a war zone and we want people to take meaningful action for it to stop, and we’ve seen people make useless platitudes about peace for decades instead of putting pressure on those complicit with the occupation and other forms of injustice to change their behavior. So when a chance comes along for meaningful action, we grab it, because we know from experience that there isn’t really a range of effective measures and we know how much people are suffering, how people are actually dying on a regular basis – from lack of access to drinking water, lack of access to medicine, getting shot at protests – and we want it to stop. Palestinians are the experts on the occupation, so it’s really worth listening to them. We’ve had decades of platitudes, what we need now is meaningful action.
          50 minutes ago · Edited · Unlike · 5
        • Rima Najjar GOOD MORNING! Still no decision?
        • Aqeelah Billingslea Stand!
          In the end you’ll still be you
          One that’s done all the things you set out to do
          Stand!
          There’s a cross for you to bear
          Things to go through if you’re going anywhere
          Stand!
          For the things you know are right
          It’s the truth that the truth makes them so uptight
          Stand!
          All the things you want are real
          You have you to complete and there is no deal
          Stand!. stand!, ooh!
          Stand!. stand!, ooh!
          Stand!
          You’ve been sitting much too long
          There’s a permanent crease in your right and wrong
          Stand
          There’s a midget standing tall
          And a giant beside him about to fall
          Stand!. stand!, ooh!
          Stand!. stand!, ooh!
          Stand!
          They will try to make you crawl
          And they know what you’re saying makes sense and all
          Stand!
          Don’t you know that you are free
          Well at least in your mind if you want to be

          Everybody
          Stand!, stand!



          -Sly and The Family Stone
          45 minutes ago via mobile · Like · 2
        • Sylvia Posadas Edie, if you were employed as a consultant by the broad consensus of Palestinian people to support their ethical, chosen tactic of boycott, divestment and sanctions, what suggestions would you have to enhance support for it?
          41 minutes ago · Edited · Like · 2
        • Rima Najjar Tali says, “this whole conversation could get me sued by the Red Sea Jazz Festival organizers and they wouldn’t even need to prove damages” – For me, I may be denied re-entry into the West Bank to teach.
        • Stanley Jordan I have made my decision and it is posted in a new thread. Edie was filling in for me while I rested. Sorry for the confusion with the same avatar picture. You can find the thread here: http://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=10151332239339060&id=14690024059&notif_t=like

          Concerning my appearance at the Red Sea Jazz Festival:After a spirited online discussion and much deep soul-searching, I have decided to honor my commitment to perform at the festival. I had received numerous messages from supporters of the Palestinian people requesting that I cancel my appearance and boycott the festival, so I opened an online thread in order to discuss the matter.Our discussion revealed a crisis whose depth was even far greater than I had known, and I felt compelled to help. Like many others, I am deeply dedicated to the cause of world peace, and this situation goes against everything anyone with a heart could ever condone. However, after much consideration I concluded that the best way I could serve the cause would be to do my performance as scheduled, but separately organize an event in a major city in the United States to raise funds and awareness of the plight of the Palestinian people. The time frame will be in September or October 2013.To those who participated in the discussion: I was very impressed by your intelligence and passion and by the generosity of your time and energy in dialoging with me and educating me on this major humanitarian crisis. I was deeply moved by the information you provided, and I want to make sure that your time and effort goes to a good cause. In particular, I am concerned at how few of my countrymen in the United States are aware of the dimensions of this crisis. Some of you who joined the discussion are living it every day and I want you to know that I have heard you and I will dedicate this year to making sure that many more hear you as well. You can follow my twitter feed at http://www.twitter.com/stanley_jordan for announcements concerning this event. If any of you would like to be involved you may contact my publicist, Edie Okamoto, at eokamoto@riovida.net, phone: 1 (323) 274-7744 ext. 3. This concert will be the most important thing I do this year and I would love to have your help. Thank you very much and Happy New Year.
        • Rima Najjar For the many Palestinians who have PA identities who are not engaging here, they may be – taken from theor homes in the dead of night – and detained for years with no legal recourse.
        • Rima Najjar Such is Israel’s legal system. I won’t link to any more info (this time about the dual legal system Israel has) because it doesn’t look that either Stanley or his manager is reading.
          23 minutes ago · Edited · Like · 2
        • Aqeelah Billingslea Why did you boycott Sun City?
        • Karen MacRae Stanley, the Palestinians don’t want your charity. They asked you to stand with them in solidarity and turn down the gig in the name of justice and you refused. Do you understand? You refused. And then you throw them a bone? Do not patronize them with western star studded charity galas and statements of how you stand for peace. To Palestinians and Israelis, you stand for occupation apartheid and yet another day of oppression.
        • Tom Pessah for the record, the Palestinian economy is completely stunted because of the occupation, for example checkpoints prevent free commerce, and permits are denied for Palestinian producers in order to prevent competition with Israeli ones. Raising money for Palestinians won’t fix any of that. Stanley, you’ve made your choice and taken sides.
          22 minutes ago · Like · 1

            • Tom Pessah for the record, the Palestinian economy is completely stunted because of the occupation, for example checkpoints prevent free commerce, and permits are denied for Palestinian producers in order to prevent competition with Israeli ones. Raising money for Palestinians won’t fix any of that. Stanley, you’ve made your choice and taken sides.
            • Emma Rosenthal Aqeelah Billingslea, as a person w a dis-ability, I don’t stand for racism, ableism, sexism or bigotry of any kind. Just saying.
            • Elise Hendrick Aqeelah: You probably didn’t realise it, but that song’s got some very problematic imagery when it comes to people with disabilities
            • Karen MacRae Aqeelah Billingslea the song you posted has some lyrics in it that are offensive to some people with disabilities. As Elise has already pointed out, we know you probably didn’t realize it
            • Elise Hendrick Tom: Not only that, what long-term benefit can it have to support Palestinian agricultural product, for example, if the land could be destroyed and/or stolen from them tomorrow? There’s absolutely nothing sustainable about a “Buy Palestinian” campaign.
            • Elise Hendrick Stanley: Your statement will be music to the ears of the propagandists at the Ministry of Foreign Affairs. You just connected performing for their propaganda function with supporting the cause of “peace” (their favourite word ever since they managed to empty it of all meaning).

              This isn’t about active listening and making sure everyone’s pizza topping preferences are acknowledged during the brainstorming process. People are getting murdered, tortured, and humiliated every day, and your decision and statement will give them no aid and no comfort, but their tormentors will make a meal of it.
            • Andrew Wirth Mr Jordan, I think the effort you have gone to to attempt to grapple with this issue is admirable. You have gone above and beyond the efforts of many of your fellow musicians in this regard. That level of responsibility should be an example to others to become informed before making critical decisions. Congratulations!
            • Elise Hendrick And I’m sure Andrew Wirth would be applauding Stanley Jordan’s spirit of deliberation had he ultimately decided to respect the Palestinian call to boycott Israeli institutions until such time as the human rights of Palestinians were fully respected by the Israeli state.
            • Leen Barghouti I want to point out that the ‘It’s complicated’ argument was used by White afrikaneers for years and years to justify the apartheid system. They said ‘it’s complicated, we and the black africans are culturally different’. It’s complicated because ‘we afrikaaners have been here for a long time and if we lose power, then we will become a minority and be driven out of Africa’. Even now former NP members admitted that they used to try and convince the UN and the US that they cannot isolate South Africa because the issue of Apartheid is complicated.

              This argument is eerily similar to the ones Israel uses.
            • Adrian Boutureira Sansberro Sorry to hear of your decision Stanley. There is nothing that you will be able to do post facto to erase the historical aberration you have just consciously chosen to partake in. You have chosen to work for, and serve the interests of a fascist, racist state, and to help legitimize its brutality. You have turned away from a golden opportunity to make history on the side of justice, and instead joined the ranks of the self serving collaborator. What I am saying is not an angry insult informed by rage, it is a simple and emotion-neutral fact. You are now an active collaborator at the service of the State of Israel, and I believe you know this and are ok with that fact. Yes, your prerogative, but a critical fact to recognize nevertheless.

              I have no doubt you will be happily welcomed in Israel. You will meet beautiful happy people that will make you feel like Israel is a normal place full of generosity and human warmth. You will find what you are wishing to find there. They will give you what you want…not the face of brutal institutionalized oppression, but the face of simple working class people, serving your food, setting up your equipment, driving you to the airport, celebrating your stardom…That personal reality was never what anyone said was wrong with Israel. average people ARE people, here, there, everywhere; but not all people consciously collaborate and participate in the processes necessary to maintain state sponsored terrorism and the policies of an oppressive regime. It is these people, those that intentionally and consciously do participate, that actually bear the bulk of the responsibility for what happens…In countries like Israel and the US, the barbarities of the terrorist state are so egregious that no citizen living under these regimes can honestly claim ignorance and non-involvement. We are all involved in the collective crimes. The difference is that some people actually DO have the power to do something about it and choose not to, while most others can do very little, no matter what their intentions are. You are the former. You had the power to do something about it, and chose not to.

              Just like you, movie producers, musicians, writers, painters, sculptors. all simple and well-intentioned folks, I’m sure, chose to be apolitical artists under Hitler and later claimed, after the war, that they had no idea how their art was being used as a validation weapon for the terrorist Nazi state. History did not accept any such claims. You too, in similar fashion, have chosen to partake in the modern version of that type of supposedly artistically apolitical collaboration and used the same types of utterly unjustifiable self-deceptions for why you are doing it…You too will be denied your justification by history, for just like those other artists under Hitler, you did have all the necessary information to know exactly what the regime you are supporting represents and stands for and who it aims to eliminate and oppress. If not from us radical extremists, then from UN reports and resolutions. But the “multiple voices” of another perspective, those speaking to you outside of this thread, which you never identified or asked that they partake in the open process, were more convincing to you than the weight of either our organized extremism or of empirical facts substantiated by the rule of international law… My, my, these must be some pretty powerful voices you were lending your ear to…Specially since you even stated that you agreed that Israel was committing injustices against the Palestinians…

              Perhaps your convictions about this were too weak to begin with, and so your ears were ready to hear what you wanted to hear so as to play it safe and protect your personal self interests; even if the arguments as to why you should play were outnumbered a thousand to one, or diminished by the facts and truths you were presented here. This was not too different than a kangaroo court. What resulted here, just as in such courts, is what the self serving dominant actor in the process wanted to result. Irregardless of evidence or facts presented in the case. It is the testimony or the circumstantial evidence presented by the one witness , but which serves the interests of the court that decides its verdict, not the factual testimony of the other 100 witnesses which challenge that interest.

              In other words, It would appear to me that you found a few voices that could bring into doubt everything you were educated about here, and you thus empowered them in your mind to become the dominant voices informing you decision. Why? I believe because those voices facilitated the advancement of your own self interests.

              In closing, to turn away from the oppressed and to serve the interests of the oppressor for no real significant reason other than the loss of a shit gig seems incomplete. Your statement to us answers nothing. It reflects zero understanding of what was shared with you about the supremacist, privileged attitude that constitutes the construct of “help”. No one needs your neo colonialist self serving help brother, the Palestinians, just like all other people in struggle and resistance, dont need help! They need our unconditional solidarity, and in this case the Palestinian people asked you to do one simple thing to show your solidarity, which you were not able to give them.

              The intellectual weakness and self serving nature of this decision is not in question for me at this point. It is my opinion that both these factors were key in informing your decision to collaborate with a brutally oppressive and racist regime. This might be something that perhaps your inner circle will protect you from, help you deny it, justify it, discredit me and others as obtuse, simple minded, orthodox ideologues….and maybe even anti semitic, I have no idea, but something will be said so that you can be at peace with the poor decision you made. But it wont be something that history will forget. In essence, you will play Sun City, and the world will forever know you did this knowing exactly what Sun City was and represented…
            • Roland Rance Given the way this discussion has developed, there can surely be few here who are surprised at Stanley’s decision. We saw this coming for a long time. The question is, who has been whispering in his ear offstage? Who has been belittling our arguments, and possibly smearing our names, without giving us the chance to respond? Was Stanley’s mind made up from the start, and he has been cynically using this, and exploiting our efforts, so that he can pretend that he has gone through a period of soul-searching to reach his “difficult” decision, and has withstood pressure from boycott activists? The effect of the hasbara avoidance of this discussion is that it appears as though only one side has been applying pressure, and that this is an honest decision unaffected by Zionist propaganda. Excuse me if I disbelieve this. In fact, I am angry at this waste of our time as a result of cynical manoeuvrings.
            • Nicolle Ferris From the beginning Stanley had No intention of pulling out.. It was obvious. At least now; he can never play the ignorant card. He knows fully what he is doing and what is going on, its just such a shame that people like him are not part of paving the way forward to put an end to this like Apartheid was….. Stanley duped a lot of people here, wasted their efforts for nothing… That’s a crime on its own. Shame on you Stanley
            • Abdelaziz Righi http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=46SIEPKnNJc
              Nor·mal·i·za·tion: a “colonization of the mind” whereby the oppressed subject comes to believe that the oppressor’s reality is the only “normal” reality…and that the oppression is a fact of life that must be coped with.
              Those who engage in normalization either ignore this oppression, or accept it as the status quo that can be lived with.
              In an attempt to whitewash its violations of international law and human rights, Israel attempts to re-brand itself or present itself as “normal” — even “enlightened” — through an intricate array of relations and activities encompassing hi-tech, cultural, legal, LGBT and other realms.
              Normalization applies to relationships that convey a misleading or deceptive image of normalcy, symmetry, or parity despite a patently abnormal and asymmetric relationship of colonial oppression and apartheid.
              For more information on cultural and academic boycott in the US, please visit: http://www.usacbi.org/
            • Stanley Jordan I want to wish everyone a happy new year. I’ll post more comments tomorrow.
            • Making Change Street Newspaper Stanley Jordan will be playing in – 01/12 Fort Lauderdale, FL (USA) Miniaci Performing Arts Center and 01/15 Dortmund, (Germany)Domicil Jazz Club if you would like to deliver your message to him in person.
            • Gabriel Ash Nicolle Ferris: Nicolle, since the beginning you devoted your presence on this thread to inject venom, starting with heating pointless abuse on Stanely Jordan who started this conversation. Do you think that abusive language is particularly persuasive? If you cannot articulate why you think anybody should change their mind and adopt your perspective, you may want to tie your typing fingers for a while and just read. This has been, I’m sure, a very illuminating thread for a lot of people, because so many have joined in with passion, knowledge, engagement, and willingness to teach. I don’t feel “cheated,” I feel sad, but I take it for granted that change is hard. It is sad that Stanely is not willing to follow on the road that his entry into this discussion should have lead him. That is his limitation. I hope he will grow out of it. I doubt that your invectives are going to help. Please take the opportunity this thread offers to learn, rather than call people who call you out on your thoughtlessness “police.”
            • Zoë Lawlor Utterly disappointing.
            • Agnes Cindy Mitchell i was just wondering if any of you have read this book that the guy recommended…
            • Emma Rosenthal I’m wondering if Agnes has read all the links that have been provided in this thread? I’m wondering if she’s even read this thread, because, yes, I’ve read the book. I even commented on it.
            • Elise Hendrick Agnes: The book and its author have been discussed at great length in this thread.
            • Emma Rosenthal a new meme: Asks people on the thread if they’ve read the book. Doesn’t actually read the thread where it’s clear people have actually read the book.
            • Emma Rosenthal Implies that those who have not read the book have no legitimate voice in the discussion. Ignores the fact that one does not have to have read the book to be able to discuss the theme of this discussion.
            • Elise Hendrick Ignores the fact that one can read the book cover to cover and memorise it and still not be able to discuss the theme of this discussion.
            • Emma Rosenthal Ignores the fact that there’s really nothing new in the book. Just say “love and light” after you’ve totally dismissed the pain and suffering of others when you are specifically and uniquely in a position to act on their behalf or benefit from their misery.
            • Tali Shapiro Stanley Jordan I want to say something about the thread. It’s really great that you asked us to all “keep it clean and respectful”, but I feel there is something filthy and disrespectful, here. If I were a Palestinian friend of mine (who gave me permission to use his story, the more illustrative parts are direct quotes), I’d tell you the following:

              3 years ago I was held in Israel’s administrative detention (that’s prison without trial) for 1 year. I spent it in a meter by meter cell with a toilet bowl, a thin mattress and a dirty blanket. I couldn’t even straighten my legs to sleep. For a whole year, I couldn’t tell if it was day or night, because my cell had no window. I wasn’t permitted to shower or shave. When I was finally taken to a shower, wearing the same dirty clothes, it was like a tomb. A tiny room that permitted me to lift my hands, in order to use the soup, in one direction, but not the other. I was in solitary confinement the whole year. Every day, for a year, I would be led from my cell to an interrogation room, where I was tied to a chair, confined in inhuman positions, beaten, and on top of the physical torture, psychologically tortured. For a whole year alone, the only people I met were my captives and they would play cruel mind games on me, while putting my body under physical duress. I never got one night’s sleep, because every night, in the middle of the night my cell was searched. I was searched.

              When I was finally tried by Israel’s military court [specifically made for Palestinans. Israeli settlers, living on my friends land, who beat up his children on their way to school and burn his olive groves, aren’t tried at all, let alone in this court], it was a kangaroo court, in which Israeli secret service brought in “secret documents” charging me with all sorts of “espionage” and “contact with the states’ enemy” charges. When I was arrested, I was told it was for SPEAKING on behalf of Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions. The court decided to release me, but confined me to Ramallah city, an hour and a half drive’s away from my village. I wasn’t allowed to go home for a year, and I’m still not allowed to participate in political activity.

              You ask me to keep it clean. You ask me to be respectful. But where is your respect to me? I worked in Tel Aviv (Tel al Rabia’) for 10 years. It’s 20 minutes away from my village in the occupied West Bank. Because of my political activity, I am now prohibited. You, on the other hand, can do as you please. You can go wherever you like, on land that is denied to me, which is my indigenous birthright. You unknowingly decided to participate in an event which is complicit with my deniers and perpetuates their control on me. Including their prison systems, where on average 5500 Palestinians are imprisoned every month. Now you have been made aware, and you ever so politely give me a big “fuck you”. You can say it as pretty as you like, Stanley. But at the end of the day, you said “fuck you”.

              If I were Palestinian, Stanley, I wouldn’t trust you to be raising awareness for my cause. In fact, as black and white as it may seem, I’d consider you my enemy. I’d consider the premiss of this conversation extremely abusive. Because if I were Palestinian, I’d be wondering right about now, about why I have to beg all these “deep, spiritual” artists to give a fuck about anybody else but themselves. You can choose Stanley. They can’t. It comes down to this. Make the right choice. It’s not a huge choice, it’s one gig for you. It’s a big victory for the Palestinian liberation movement.
            • Sam Siddiqui Hi Stanley, glad to see you opening yourself to voices in Palestine. The simplest thing I can say is that you should boycott Israel because there is no academic or cultural institution in Israel that opposes the occupation – so aligning yourself with any institute there is being complicit in the institutions which not only do not oppose but are complicit in the human rights abuses on the people. There is no place for neutrality in the face of injustice
            • Vickie Mansour-Hasan Dear Stanley– Thank you for taking the time to consider the ramifications of playing in Israel. Israel is an apartheid state that flouts international law. The economic, cultural and academic boycott of Israel is necessary in order to bring international attention to Israel’s 64 years of human rights abuses. Like South Africa, Israel should be treated as a pariah state until it grants equality and justice to non-Jewish members of the State, including right of return to its refugees. These are fundamental and basic human rights of indigenous that have yet to be respected. For that reason, it is important that artists see Israel for the pariah state it has become. Thank you for your time.
            • Breege Burke If someone tells me that an issue is ‘complicated’, I know that either they think I’m thick or they’re hiding something. What do YOU think, Stanley Jordan?
            • Brian Kwoba Thank you to all the articulate voices that have put your time, effort, and passion into this discussion. I have learned so much from all the posters on this thread and the last one and my only regret is that I didn’t find out about this sooner.
              Stanley, I used to look up to you, and study your music as an aspiring jazz guitarist. I appreciate that you opened a space for dialogue here. That is something most artists do not do. And perhaps we did not do enough to explain to you the relationship between the ‘inner/spiritual’ and ‘outside/material’ dimensions of this situation.
              At the same time, as a BLACK man from Chicago, you should know what systemic racism look and feels like. And you should know how it masks itself behind “liberal” and “progressive” packaging. That is what the Israeli government is going to do with you and your artistry: use it to cover up all the violence and oppression that is is dispensing on a daily basis.
              I used to look up to you, but now I have to wonder how much blood money you’re being paid by the Israeli government in exchange for your complicity in whitewashing and ‘normalizing’ the image of that murderous and criminal regime.

              SHAME ON YOU for crossing the picket line organized by one of the most oppressed people in the world.
              Don’t be an Uncle Tom for apartheid!
            • Fatima Husseni There is no international picket line. Just this year, madonna opened her world tour in Israel. The Red Hot Chili Peppers played in Israel. So many others. Israel is a beautiful and diverse land, and the best thing to do is to see it for yourself
            • Ronnie Barkan dear Stanley and all, i cannot unfortunately stay online at the moment to read through this discussion but in caseit hhasn’t been mentioned would like to stress one point : Israel is not a Jewish state by religion, most ethnic Jews who live here are secular (and vehemently oppose certain Jewishvvalues) and most Jews live abroad and not in this land. The so called Jewish democratic state of Israel is only Jewish in the ethnic supremacist sense, from the very foundation of the state and before – as opposed to previous form of apartheid in SA which transformed into a supremacist entity, here we’re talking about a supremacist state that was built that way. All its state apparatus are fundumentaly about that. There’s no clash of civilizations and never was. no religious conflict. These ONLY serve as distractions from the all too simple facts.
            • Ronnie Barkan even though you seem to have made your mind on this issue, and against the request of Palestinian civil society, i hope you’ll eventually come to senses. there is no conflict here in Palestine more than there was a conflict between whites and blacks in SA. there was racism, supremacy and terror between the oppressor and the oppressed. there are also some differences – mainly that SA apartheid didn’t receive so much support from every corner of the world. but the support for Israeli apartheid is eroding at a great pace, i hope you will eventually choose to stand on the right side of history.
              more from me here : http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/opinion/2012/12/2012121493851318854.html
            • Dave Tinham what’s needed is justice, not charity. please reconsider as you’re not playing for peace, but rather the very opposite by normalizing a jewish supremacist ideology
            • Elise Hendrick There is nothing specifically Jewish (or even particularly original) about Zionism. It is just yet another minor variation on the standard colonialist/racist ideology that can be found in just about every country in which colonial invaders have robbed and displaced the indigenous population. Everything from the “land without a people” canard to the “making the desert bloom” and “villa in the jungle” canard has been done before.
            • Emma Rosenthal Zionism is merely an extension of the same western settler colonialist justifications that were essential in the establishment of any settler colonialist entity, including South Africa. The answer to western Anti-jewish racism, is opposing all racism. The answer to setter-colonialism is likewise, opposing all racism.
              about an hour ago · Like · 1

              • Emma Rosenthal In a previous comment on this thread, I erroneously stated that along with Macy Gray, Pete Seeger and Richard Montoya, that Leonard Cohen had also expressed regret for crossing the BDS picket line. I have since edited that comment and I apologize for the error.

                I added to that comment that Denise Jannah has also expressed similar regrets.

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By Swaneagle Harijan

(In response to Chris Hedges’ article* on the black block, Swaneagle Harijan offers this analysis.)
Since the WTO i felt DOT (diversity of tactics) was double speak for “hit and running” leaving others to bear the brunt of poorly thought out and unprincipled property destruction. I saw many seasoned activists dance around the term in an effort to be inclusive. As is the case with drug addicts in occupy, the presence of DOT was not clarified in clear terms from the beginning, just as a clear “no drug use in camp” policy was not established at Decolonize Occupy Seattle’s 2 encampments. When clarity fails once trouble rises, then real problems development that become almost impossible to address.

I agree with some of what Chris Hedges is saying, but it also displays his relative newness to activism which i have seen in other articles lacking in depth of experienced history.

Many of those in the black bloc are young and some are quite expertly manipulated. One of the most disturbing problems i have had with DOT people is the dogmatism that refuses to dialog with others. One must pass thru some kind of convoluted system of approval in order to even talk to the holier than thous who are the in crowd of self described “authentic revolutionaries “. In public they wear masks and behave like paramilitaries. In the camp they did not talk to anyone even when spreading their dogmatic literature in camp. On their website, which i subscribed to after my experience watching them take over a march for murdered Indigenous wood carver John T Williams almost a year ago, i posted what i saw happen. I was called a “significant pathological pacifist agitator” which displays the influence of War Churchill, a person i have had issue with since the first draft i read of his book “Pacifism as Pathology”. I dare say it is his smallest, most poorly researched book, yet the impact on those anarchists in involved in the WTO was significant. I saw how Zerzan and Churchill shaped a nastiness among young anarchists, some of whom i had been working with for many years, that continues to this day. The mean spiritedness displayed towards those they consider “pacifist whimps” is superficially arrived at divide and conquer denouncement. It slams the door on meaningful communication.

Then you have anarchists who participate in the black bloc who have contributed in major ways to the humanity of how the Decolonize Occupy camp was maintained. To describe the black bloc as cancer is extreme. I would say the phenomenon is more like bronchitis that with the right care can be possibly cured. It is a huge problem, but i suppose if we are taking on this system that kills more people on the planet right now than any other force, we must find humane ways of addressing the conflict that now is deep and embedded.

No matter what the self described “authentic revolutionaries” say, many people have been driven away from occupy due to the hostile mistreatment of others whose ways may differ. I have heard the stories. Writing people off who do not fit into dogma displays dangerous, cultivated cultishness. That will relegate the black bloc to the same irrelevance that has saddled the RCP and other cultist “revolutionary” groups who to this day, annoy the crap out of most activists.

Sadly all too many DOT actions serve the purpose of infiltrators. So why is there no in depth analysis or openness to critique about the true long term impacts of property destruction? Why are any and all reactions from residents of Oakland who are very upset by the black bloc not heeded, but rather silenced? I am talking about several women of color who have expressed their deep dismay at these behaviors instigated by primarily white male anarchists that leave their community in shambles and push them completely away from occupy. Many men and women of color living in Oakland have told me themselves how upset they are by these developments and that the young people of color who join the black bloc do NOT represent the community or participants of color in Occupy Oakland. One Black father told me he is sick of cleaning up the mess the black bloc leaves behind and he is part of OO as well. There is a whole level of voices that are NOT heard on Democracy Now! or anywhere else for that matter.

Another aspect of DOT that has always bothered me is hiding not only who you are, but the whole truth of what happens. In Seattle, there is an effort to silence those who see people throwing rocks, bricks, rebar or paint bombs. Veiled threats have been made if occupiers dare take photos of such actions and too many people are being called snitches behind their backs.

The worst nastiness i have seen are online discussion groups. People who claim to be nonviolent are as vicious as those who ardently defend property destruction or fighting the cops. It is very ugly.

Then there are those who are somewhat taken in by the romanticism of the black bloc who also ostracize those perceived as being nonviolent whimps. The whole structure of how so many people are behaving reminds me of popular, good looking high school bullies who deem who is expendable and all their buddies and gals go along with the program.

In my experience, most anarchists, including those into DOT, have great respect for the Zapatistas. There are many facets to all groupings of people. It is not possible to completely peg anyone, but sadly, there is a blanket image of the black bloc that fits into much of what Chris Hedges is saying. This really needs to be examined by all who care about Decolonizing Occupy.

My biggest concern is how some activists can self elevate themselves to escape critique which is very danterous on numerous levels. It skirts around honesty, accountability and participatory solutions. No one person carries all the info. No one person can grab THE handle of what will and won’t work. We all deserve to have input and be included, but respect is essential that is all too often missing in the way those who engage in DOT behave and treat others. Disrespect has become a hallmark of DOT as well as secrecy. It is ultimately self defeating.

I am a Frontline Grandmother who has been on the streets and deeply involved in struggles for human rights, justice and authentic peace for over 30 years. My life as a silenced activist has given me a longterm outlook on what is happening now. I continue to be silenced. My long years of deep experience has no value to most cause i lack fame and the privilege to publish my extensive writings and documentation. I must say, it really bugs me how relatively new activist like Chris Hedges have such wide voice, but women like me do not and most likely never will.

The situation with the black bloc is indeed very serious. How we deal with it will decide the course of our current international struggle. We are all so deeply interconnected now. We cannot afford to throw all those involved with the misguided DOT away as cancerous. Rather, we must proceed with deep love, care and intelligence in shaping something that more precisely represents the goals and dreams we all can share in. This is not just the vision of people engaging in more domineering bully behaviors, but the joint efforts of each one of us. Please reconsider what you deem cancerous Chris Hedges, for it may rise out of this current turmoil as key to solution for us all. It is our challenge and our sacred duty to face this with all we know with all our hearts and all the voices still excluded.

http://www.truth-out.org/black-bloc-cancer-occupy/1328541484 

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Emma Rosenthal, MacArthur Park, Rampart Division-LAPD, Los Angeles

I am grateful for the opportunity to speak to you today at this October 22 demonstration against police brutality on the theme, Resistance Matters,  focusing on a segment of EVERY community– people with dis-abilites.

People with dis-abilities are specifically targeted by police for abuse and brutality.

People who are deaf, unable to heed orders they do not hear, unable to communicate with authority, often are killed or battered by a system that doesn’t take their communication needs into consideration.

People with visible dis-abilities attract the attention of bullies, including the bullies in blue who know that there are no consequences for our ostracism or victimization.

People who appear, walk, talk differently are often singled out, accused of being drunk, and often have trouble with law enforcement because of both misunderstandings and the outright hostility toward us, by the police.

People with mental health conditions come in contact with police on the street, when our behavior doesn’t conform to society’s expectations, or when police are called to respond to medical emergencies.

Homelessness and prisons ARE our society’s mental health care system.

Police often respond to medical psychiatric emergencies with brutal and often deadly force, claiming they felt that they were in imminent danger.

Imagine if health care providers said they had to kill a patient because the patient’s condition threatened the lives of health care professionals.

It is the job of health care providers to treat people who are ill. We must demand no less of emergency personnel, including police, when answering a call for medical emergencies.

___________________

There is a nexus of gender, class and race with dis-ability, compounding our experience with authorities. We are part of every community, not a separate group, or geographic. There is no organization or outreach that can fully succeed without our full inclusion. You cannot address the issue of police brutality without also addressing the role of people with dis-abilities in the struggle for social justice.

Yet many social justice organizations don’t include people with dis-abilities fully, in addressing many social justice issues, and often perpetuate attitudes and policies that contribute to our marginalization.

You can’t defend our rights without our participation, our full participation. Nothing about us, without us. Working on our behalf without us, simply appropriates our exploitation in the service of rhetoric.

A movement that isn’t informed by the victims perpetuates the abuse. Planning that does not take our specific needs and issues into consideration often puts us in significant danger. Too often event security responds to us in much the same way that the state does.  I have been at demonstrations where the event coordinators did as much to endanger us, as the police do. This must be changed, this must be challenged.

We cannot fight a system by replicating its attitudes & practices. We cannot demand from society what we cannot also create among ourselves.

Expectations of people with dis-abilities merge with issues of race/gender and class to increase marginalization via expectations of behavior.

Thinking of people with dis-abilities as aberrant, undesirable, non-contributing and a burden have no place in the movement, these are capitalist attitudes.

Dis-ability rights isn’t charity. nothing short of full inclusion is justice. It is not your place to “help” us, but rather to work with us, to include us in ways that inform praxis.

It is NOT our job to make you comfortable with out conditions.

It is NOT our job to find our own way into your organizations.

It is NOT our job to say what you want to hear, and to leave our particular needs and experience out of the discussion.

Dis-ability inclusion is the collective responsibility of the entire community. 

________________

Additionally, agents of repression know to use dis-ability to divide the movement, like they use gender & race; by relying on our own prejudice & bigotry.

Infiltrators use ridicule of people with dis-abilities. Police have been known to “street: us into demonstrations to provoke an angry crowd that knows we are acceptable targets.

These divisive tactics don’t work when we check ourselves, our own entitlements that mask as privileges that defeat us all. We cannot build a sincere movement w/o including the most marginalized sectors, and we cannot address police brutality by ignoring its specific nexus with dis-abilty .

_______________

It must also be  recognized that police not only target people with dis-abilities for abuse, but also, in their brutality, create dis-ability, leaving those who survive, injured and traumatized. Let us honor those comrades wounded in the struggle, injured by capitalism, with ramps, sign language & voice, as well as make room for all activists into the future, as any one of us can become a person with a dis-ability, at any time.

No more excuses. These are matters of resistance because resistance matters.

So, let us build the strongest resistance to police brutality and state hegemony by ever increasing the circle, by standing, sitting, signing, rolling arm in arm in solidarity, a strong movement that cannot afford to leave anyone behind, a movement that needs everyone’s voice, everyone’s story.

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